Laudanum & ANF

My experience with the foundation as a newbie

Oh boy. Here's the drama.

I posted on the Laudanum site exactly why I kicked him out. There were no names being called, or anything to that regard. He is trying to "Make me regret it" as he promised he would do.

Suffice it to say I do not regret his removal from my society. Here's the post from our leadership board.

Second casualty of the day, FeffoidQueen, AKA Wild asked me if he could enter the 50 days contest. I said no, and that the contest had started a few weeks ago. His reply was "Yes I can read."

The fuck?

If you can read so well, why are you asking me? It says very clearly what the rules are on the contest. So what gives? At any rate, I had enough with members giving me lip, and more importantly him doing it as he seems to think he knows better than anyone else how EU should be played --- even though he started last week. I made an example out of him, to be short. And every time he spoke he reinforced that example by giving attitude, acting like a spoiled teenager.
Net result - He got the boot.

I strive to maintain overall a good vibe and attitude within the group.

In Wilds case he had a decent attitude towards participation, but he seemed to resent not knowing how to do something and covered it up with snide remarks and make believe expertise. Remarks like that unfortunately put people into a bit of a bind. Most folks simply ignore it, and roll their eyes. But it brings them down a bit. Little by little the remarks wear away. I opted to use my position within the group to end the remarks immediately in a flaming mess of internet argumentation. Why? Because quite frankly I was the only one online who could do it, and I had enough of listening to conversations with an undercurrent of "I know better" from someone who obviously does not have the experience ingame to provide him with those credentials.
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---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

Rereading the above post, I cut and pasted alot from our boards. Some things like "The 50 days contest" will sound rather vague on this board.

The 50 days contest is posted on our front page. The contest started in late May, and the rules were clear on what folks had to do, and when they had to do it in order to participate I have a prize at the end of 50 days without depositing worth in excess of 500 PED I am awarding to the participant who makes the most PED during this period.

As to the rest of his statements -- Master and should know better? Heh. Im the biggest noob there is! Any doubters are free to interview anybody, and I mean anybody in Laudanum to get an idea of what my attitude is like within the society. This guy is bearing false witness because his pride was injured. Nothing more.

 

My experience with the Laudanum as a newbie

Thank you for illustrating some of the smart ass type of stuff our society chat had to put up with whenever your opinion was questioned. This is the kind of stuff we did not want to deal with and what you ultimately got removed for. We actually liked your level of enthusiasm and activity. What we found difficult ultimately was your expertise on everything lent your conversation an air of derision.

This is neither here nor there though. The boards are not a place to work something like this out. And to be honest after seeing the fluff you posted here, and recognizing it as an attempt to make my society look bad to the public (and try to ruin us through a negative reputation), I have no desire to work this out. As far as I am concerned you are a liar, a manipulator, and a potential menace to my group.

In short: I wish you luck in your endeavors, and I pray that those endeavors keep us many miles apart.

Thank you

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

Oh my dear lord. Its short for "What the fuck?" Which is an expression. Youre grasping at straws.

Lip. As in bad attitudes. As in what this post is totally rotten with. And yeah my members dont have the right to ruin other members games. That includes my game. Im a member too, dammit!

No, I just think you should listen to more experienced players since you joined the Adopt a Newbie program. Or did you join not because you needed mentorship, but because you knew everything and this was an avenue to get free stuff. Hmm... the plot thickens.

I did. And I did because you copped an attitude. "Yes I can read." Again, if you can read so well, why ask me the question? I know the answer --- because you were testing me to see if I would let you in with an advantage, so that again you could get free stuff. The $30 reward for breaking 1000 sweat wasnt good enough for you. You got greedy, and then got angry after you were denied.

I didnt cuss in soc chat. In fact I never even called you any names. And if I would have cussed I have no moral opposition to doing so, and resent the fact that you would throw up Puritan ideals in an attempt to formulate a defense for your behavior! See the picture --- --- this is what youre doing, acting the angel in order to successfully become a menace, or devil, to another. You are no angel.

I ran you to New Switzerland and Twin Peaks. I have a teleport run I do every week, and run individual members all over the place whenever they want. I mentioned to you I would take you to Fort Argus during our Twin Peaks run. When did I deny you? I did this all while working 56 hours this week! Yes, I have a job. And I play EU. And I help my guild. And I dont read EF. Everyone here knows that!

I was the only one online who could do it because I was the only officer online with the power to kick. God syndrome? No, its just a mechanical fact of the game. You sir are an armchair psychologist though. And not a very good one!

---------------

The mods are going to have to remove these posts. The drama is lame but this guy wants attention. Perhaps they can be split off into his own thread or something? :-(

 

I'm a laud member and have been for a while. I'm replying here because this (presumably) will be the place where the discussion gets moved to.

I was away for the past few days and never got the chance to meet shadowraider, but i know Magyar rather well due to the time i've spent in the guild and i have to say, i've never known mag to be mean, cruel or overbearing. He's never once called anyone names in the guild fora or in guild chat when i've been on. The main guild tenets are based on mutual respect, and Mag - being a firm believer in the Guild (the guild being mag's brainchild, and let me tell you, he puts time in to this as if it really were a child) - respects the game, other players, and most importantly other guildies.

As i said, i never met shadowraider, but i can say with confidence that the allegations they made against Mag and the guild are complete hogwash.

 

Wow and all this happens while you sleep ...

It is unfortunate when things like this happens, but let me start by clearing out, I do not know any of you personally - and non of you seem to be 'mean' or 'cruel' or even drama queens to me.

A bad experience happened in the name of ANF and that I'm very sad about. It could have happened everywere of course, but this concerns me.

I'm sad to hear that Shadowraider went through this as a very young experience in EU but I'm also sad that the Laudanum as a society and the soc leaders and members have to go through this too.

Fact is it looks like the chemistry have been missing even from the beginning - and that happens when you're dealing with people. What seems harsh and wrong after one persons opinion might be alright after another persons, as there's also a lot of ways a person can analyze what is being said - and a lots of ways to say things, even with the best intentions - but clearing it up will not be solved by discussing - which now turned out to be a mud-throwing game about who's wrong and who's right. I can only advice you to stop this, because it won't bring anything good with it - it will make more damage on both sides than necessary.

Laudanum decided to kick Shadowraider - now the soc got peace again.

Luckily other societies was ready to take in Shadowraider again, which I know already happened.

I wish both soc and Shadowraider the best in future! And I wish to remind you; It's just a game. No need to keep hard feelings from either sides, just because you didn't fit together as soc mates!

Good luck
Lykke

Adopt a Newbie Foundation

 

Hey, thanks for moving this. IMO it only tenously had ties with an actual ANF experience, perhaps illustrating where something can go wrong and what things might happen when a relationship between an adoptee and a society does not work.

I was actually logging on to send Dalas a PM letting him know simply that the adoption had not worked out as planned so he could track the noob gear distributions properly when I ran into this thread...

Is it a full moon today by any chance? It would explain the cranky behavior...

 

Dunno - online it seems to be full moon quite often ;)

My personal experience is, that even minor things (I don't say this is, it is all in the eye of the beholder) can become big issues after it's been through a written treadmill - and quite often also, things which was not necessary was said and quite often the involved people regret it afterwards - because it didn't have a point (still not saying this didn't have a point - just trying to make a point ;) )

 

Yup the damage was done the moment this thread was posted.

Thats ok. I'll deal with the fallout. Been running this guild for almost 3 years. Fallout happens. Life goes on.

 

*Rubs eyes* Huh? What?

Ahhh, some drama while we slept I see. Well I wasn't expecting that!

It seems like you've all sorted it out already. As Lykke said, it is quite sad that this experience has happened within the boundaries of ANF, but indeed, not everyone can get along like a house on fire.

The reason for this I believe might be either one of two things:

The language barrier - I notice Shadowraider is from Latvia - which can sometimes strike at the most inconvenient time in a most subtle way. I know this because at times it has caused trouble with my girlfriend and I (her being Norwegian, me being English). Even though her English is brilliant and always improving, there have been times when a word was associated differently in our languages or a wrong word gave a totally different impression.

Or...

The good old internet. Using myself as an example, I am often misunderstood in typing compared to speaking. People have called me a control freak online but that's about the furthest from the truth you could get. All just because of what I typed being misunderstood or taken the wrong way! People I've met in person after first meeting them online have all said how much calmer and friendlier sounding I am speaking compared to typing.

The thing that impressed me about this situation here is that by the time Lykke and I woke up (Ok, Lykke woke up a couple of hours before me!), Shadowraider had already found a transfer within ANF, to Paradox. I'm not sure exactly how that worked, but it seems to show some kind of maturity and self-sufficiency in the Foundation, which is very nice to see, especially since I still consider this a baby Foundation, after just a few months!

Thanks to everyone for your contributions, and let's move on from this cautiously, warily but most importantly wiser.


And with a smile :)

Peace!

 

Lost Renegades & ANF

Lol, real mature dude. You continue to show your class.

This is not an issue of miscommunication. I think that's pretty clear. This is an issue where a 37 year old insists on behaving like a 12 year old. I cannot subject my society to teenage style tantrums simply because a person is an adoptee for a program.

I had my reservations on doing this, but I have had enough with being suspected all because someone with maturity issues has a problem. He claimed earlier that my guild was against me, that he teamed up with people who were online, etc... Time to post a screenshot from guild chat. Feel free to read the words from someone who was actually online at that time.

http://www.laudanumonline.com/drupal/gallery2/d/1328-1/Entropia+2010-06-06+18-16-04-01.jpg

In case anyone has any further questions, please refer to the first post in this thread by Shadowraider. Before you read it, think about the word maturity. Think to yourself "If I was a mature individual, would I post this here?" Now read the post.

 

Things were just about to calm down, no need to ignite the flaming again.

We have a saying here, something along the lines of "You don't have to marry him/her", just stay away from eachother.

And, im not picking a side here (actually, are you guys really thinking the world needs to know all that?), but i felt like adding this:

If you are new somewhere it is wise to shut up and be polite and listen to people. Nobody likes smarty-pants, and if you are too busy making everyone think you know everything better (which is usually hardly more than a poor attempt to disguise a low self-esteem), you will for sure miss out on the real good advices from people playing this game for years - why tell you when you already know everything better... ;)

 

To be honest Id rather not have seen this thread. But it exists and needs to be dealt with appropriately.

Narfi may have found he is a good fit for his particular group. Thats great news. I hope he works out. The spirit of this program is about helping new players, helping each other, and helping the game. I wish Lost Renegades all the best and hope it works out.

With us it obviously did not. It was at its very essence a personality clash. One that should have been left ingame, and talked about with the ANF Leaders to ensure simple fairness of loot distribution.

There is only one reason why this issue is on the boards. Because a player chose to take it to this level. That being said, as a player chose to put my society and myself on trial I am left with little choice but to offer a counterclaim. I never had any intention of ruining this players experience. Its a shame he wants to ruin the experience of those associated with me. This is really what he is doing. I am not fazed by this particular exchange. Ive been playing MMO's since the beginning, and have seen this many times before. It is inconsequential to me. My members however may not feel the same way. They may find their game hampered in small ways because of this individuals efforts. He is potentially hurting them.

Anytime a person is removed from a social group the risk of drama happening increases --- opinions fly, and the verbal swords are crossed. If drama happens people will spar over what will be accepted as "truth." This is because bonds are formed, hopes are raised, and people have a reason to be proud of achievements. If it doesnt work out, those hopes crash down, bonds are broken, and people try to find something to blame other than themselves. They do this in order to avoid facing the fundamental truth of the exchange. That truth is this: The person removed from the group was just told in the most unmistakable way possible that they were not welcome somewhere. It hurts to hear that, but sometimes it needs to be done. The reasons for doing so vary, but the fact remains. It is what it is.

Did I do something wrong? Is my society lacking? Maybe. We dont buy sweat from new players within the society --- many of us are new players and one sweat purchase would open up a tidal wave of requests, denials, adn hurt feelings. So we keep all trade transactions involving this lowest level supply out of the guild. By doing so we avoid accusations of preferential treatment, but incur the wrath of those would see our items as a symbol of wealth and our denial as a message that they are not worthy of sharing. We have many unofficial rules like this, and these rules are open to interpretation, perspective, and situational need. We dont go out of our way to deny our members, but perhaps some need a personal crutch that we have chosen not to provide. As it is our real money these players are asking for, it is in my assessment morally correct and within the spirit of the game to judiciously use our money as we see fit. By denying certain goods and asking the new players to make their own connections we are in fact helping them grow. We are doing our jobs. A new players job in our assessment is to listen to us as we try to teach simple lessons.

Are we going to write them a dissertation on economics? No. This is about imparting fundamentals, not claiming vast expertise.

However to state publicly falsehoods about how the social group is maintained is not to acknowledge a fault of the society itself (and give it opportunity to improve itself), but rather to create fiction in an attempt to spread discord and ill will against a group with the general public. Such is the essence of this particular drama, and of many dramas in the past. Its the stuff of soap operas, plays, and wars. The intention is to evoke passions, and suppress rational analysis -- and passions have been stirred here.

I'll end this with a quote:

"Awareness of a trap is the first step in avoiding it."

That will be all.

 

Oops, I was going by this: "i will try my luck with new European soc, called Paradox". Glad you took Shadow under your wings though Narfi, good job!

Agreed.

The issue has been resolved, so thanks Magyar. We of course wish you better luck with matching future newbies you may choose to adopt.

 

Honestly it hasnt been resolved. Its been swept under the carpet.

I withdraw from the foundation. Please remove my guild from the post. I'll continue to help new players as I have always done, and I will do it without politics.

No offense. Im just aware when something isnt working. I cut Shadowraider because it wasnt working, and Im bowing out of this for the same reason. Im not a politician. I dont have the stomach for it. I understand the 'hints' that have been dropped asking me to be quiet, and have understood from the beginning exactly what that would mean to me politically in this group if my viewpoint were not seen. It has not been seen, therefore I dont see a reason to drag this out any further.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

Well it's your choice Magyar, I don't believe anyone was "hinting" at anything, at least I wasn't. You seem like your heart's in the right place and that's important. Perhaps some patience with newbies would help. I'll respect your decision there, and hope there are no hard feelings outside of your personal dispute with Shadowraider.

Oh well, at least you got the last word...

Doh! No you didn't, I did :D