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Do your part - summoning dispute

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by AlricBezel, Aug 14, 2013.

What should be the consequences of the summoning incident?

  1. Nothing

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  2. Warning for the abusers

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  3. Temp ban for the abusers

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%

  4. Perm ban for the abusers

    7 vote(s)
    50.0%

  5. Reimbursement for the victims

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%

  6. Option for players to "disable" lootable PVP

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%

  7. Options for players to ignore summoning messages

    10 vote(s)
    71.4%

  8. Increase of MindArk's responsiveness (365 days a year)

    11 vote(s)
    78.6%

  9. Clearer policies for abuse, harassment, ...

    10 vote(s)
    71.4%

  10. Public announcement of the concequences incl. potential bans

    9 vote(s)
    64.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Aug 14, 2013 #1
    AlricBezel

    AlricBezel

    • Like Like x 1
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. Aug 14, 2013 #2
    RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    The problem with this issue is that there was no word from MA that is was illegal (making it legal), when it started to happen. Even though it was not morally right to use the feature in the way they did and that they waited to use it until MA was on holiday does not make it illegal. So unless they are still doing it when MA said it is illegal I think there is not much that can be done about it.

    It is simply a consequence of MA's lousy programming and their long holiday without anyone around that was able to do something but you can not punish someone for something that was not illegal when they did it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Aug 14, 2013 #3
    Tass

    Tass Administrator

    First: I took the freedom to add a poll to this thread too, anything to add/remove/change?



    It's no question that the summoners were (are?) acting unethically. But that's what MindArk are doing too from time to time...

    So how to asses this incident?

    The major problem is still that the summoners didn't exploit a bug, they used regular features of the game. Looting in lootable PVP is not wrong, not even the use of the summoning system might be wrong. Definitely wrong was of course the extent they have used the summon messaging and that should be covered by harassment policy:

    So you would have to look at the details. Was the incident before or after MindArk made clear that it is considered abuse? Has the individual recveived a warning or temp ban before? How long ago was that?

    If someone was reported for the first time and stopped after MindArk's message I think a term ban is absolutely inappropriate.

    And regarding reimbursement, how could this be done in fair way? Using the lootpool? Is it fair to let people who were cautious enough not to get looted pay for those who got looted?


    What definitely went wrong here:

    Lacking proactivity:

    1. A flaw in the design of the summoning system: an "ignore this session" and/or "ignore permanently" for summoning messages would have been sufficient already

    2. A missing layer of security for players: A "never take me into lootable PVP" option in general settings would have been sufficient already

    Lacking reactivity:

    3. Missing responsiveness: MindArk should have released a public statement much earlier

    4. Failed responsibility: this incident should have been stopped either by temporarily disabling the system or temp banning the abusers

    Lacking ethics:

    5. While the issue has been discussed on all forums MindArk were replying on PCF and instead of getting the official message published on an official channel earlier.


    My conclusion is: MindArk should take a "perm ban" and substract reimbursements from the salary of the top management and in addition should take measures to counter each of the 5 items above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Aug 14, 2013 #4
    Nor Alien

    Nor Alien Wisker Fish

    I'll add to Tass's post by saying, offset the vacations with some people (groups) taking it earlier or later. When one group is on vacation, the second continues with patches/fixes and has high enough management to make the big decisions such as dealing with this exploit.

    Next ill re-emphasize the need to post a statement in the CL plus one on the main web site with a RSS feed. It doesn't need to be definitive, but rather an acknowledgment that yes we have heard the general public, and we are actively looking into it. Plus one quick sentence that sets the stance on yes this is within the rules, or no this not intended and anyone caught using it will be delt with harshly!

    Just my opinion of course. ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Aug 15, 2013 #5
    NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I *am* doing my part. I'm not playing ;-)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Aug 15, 2013 #6
    HoloSquad

    HoloSquad

    LoL LoL,
    Mindark will do jack shit i think we all know that, where are the vu updates where are the employees on a beech with bonus pay from all our money all summer
    I bet Mindark is the only people that do this in the gaming world
    holidays for summer what a joke right I know a lot of gaming company's that work all summer and have updates every week on their game

    I don't play this game/system anymore so i'm not voting I prefer to put my money on steam and steam games, and pay my bills and keep food on table why shud u/i make Mindark employees richer just spit right back in our face?

    Sorry for derailing the thread a bit, but I can't help but say what I'm thinking.

    I just saw this on Calypso forum By Kim calypso:
    Now that proves what I've been saying we are making them richer just to live it up on a beech they have a game to run and keep they don't care 1 bit.

    They are like the real banks getting bonus twice a year and nobody stops to look or take notice the community in this game well your lap dogs who what the bone given to you.


    I like this game i want to play but I don't like the people who work at mindark who run this game the boss ceo whatever one wants to call it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Aug 15, 2013 #7
    MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    I haven't been in the game in about 3 weeks or more ... got my "we miss you" email, and I felt like responding with ... "Has there been a take over at the top yet? ... no? ... then you can miss me some more" ... so I guess I agree with Peter and HoloSquad, although I really like Arkadia and Cyrene, so we'll see what tomorrow brings, or the day after, or ...

    EDIT:

    Oh, and ... I voted. :biggrin:
     
  8. Aug 15, 2013 #8
    AlricBezel

    AlricBezel

    After reading the posts I agree with everyone, lol. When my health went on me EU saved me from going nuts from not being able to do anything that I felt was productive and having to completely change my life. But lately I am feeling that it's not a bad idea to pull back the reins and switch to another game.
    I have recently seen a new game called AfterTimeDiaries, which is to have a real cash economy. AfterTimeDiaries seems to have a familiar name to AfterWorld (I think that's the name of that game) and I can't say what's going to happen with ATD, they are just going into a alpha later this year, currently in beta. The alpha is a paid entry of $50 and then you can pay other amounts for more perks, which allows higher level items, investments into the company, etc.
    The reason I have stuck with EU through all the crap decisions of the owning company and even feeling sometimes like I am being ripped off is because in the long run you have something to show for your time and effort, unlike other games out there now in where you spend the time, have fun, but there's nothing of real world value.
    After this recent issue of the summoning situation and knowing some people that go hit by this player, seeing how MA hasn't really done anything and most likely won't, I am feeling more and more than there's no reason to support a company that embraces the crooks.
    Perhaps it is time to move on.
     
  9. Aug 15, 2013 #9
    MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space



    What? ... Splain please?
     
  10. Aug 15, 2013 #10
    misao

    misao


    As far as I can tell, he means you're left with items with a monetary value in EU.. Where as if you were playing a subscription fee you'd be left with just virtual items and stats worth nothing.
     
  11. Aug 15, 2013 #11
    MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space



    Gotcha ... but we don't own anything in EU ... there may be a monetary value, but it takes a lot to withdraw it, if that's what we intend to do - that's all we can do ... unless I missed something along the way somewhere.
     
  12. Aug 16, 2013 #12
    AlricBezel

    AlricBezel

    I was meaning that if you were to stop playing the game and chip out and all that you get something back. Other MMO's don't have that option unless you illegally sell your account or gold in account, but it's not legal and doesn't really have the value like the items and skills do in EU. So as we deposit some is going to the paying for entertainment side of the game but also it's an investment as far as being able to sell everything you have, chip out and sell skills, then you can withdraw from EU and get a check, hence the time spent in EU is worth something.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Aug 17, 2013 #13
    HoloSquad

    HoloSquad

    What if every one was poor and no bought the stuff of you then what ?

    Those guys at the top socs rich stuck up guys will not buy you out.

    My option i would close account with everything on it like i did in 2009 over level 20 in most proffesions.

    I don't come to this game wanting money i like the concept of the game if i won a 200k global it all would stay in the game i would not withdraw no way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Aug 17, 2013 #14
    mastermesh

    mastermesh

    This little summoning issue is just one small tip of the iceberg with what's wrong with this game, and has been for many, many years.

    I finally sold my shop (at a major loss) a few months ago since I needed cash irl more than in virtual... Still have a few items on my avatar that I might use someday if this game ever comes back to life again with halfway descent developers, but til then, I'm out creating foundry levels in Neverwinter, exploring the little known corners of the world in DC Universe, and trying to go back to learning to fly that @#$%@#$% plane in San Andreas so that I can finally get my pilot license...

    I do still log in to pick up a few barrels of oil or kegs at the beer garden, but that's about it for now. Based on the population that I see in those spots I think some others may be taking similar actions...

    The whole vu10 mess screwed up EU and it's not really ever recovered yet... so let the devs take all the long vacations they want. Soon they'll have to get real jobs when the servers go down for good.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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