Entropia News: Controlled Mobs

Discussion in 'Entropia News' started by EP-Newsbot, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space


    Creating a "stationary" mech graphic inside a game is one thing, designing a fully functioning user feature in the game is another, and that's where Cyrene brought their creative ability utilizing CE2 to present a "real" concept to MA that was actually a user feature, rather than a decoration.

    Yes, the idea of mechs has been around a long time, and they have been successfully used in other games ... I used to have a couple of them in Anarchy Online and loved it, so it was exciting when the Cyrene devs went the distance and decided to bring us something new.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  2. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    MindStar is actually dead on. The contract states that PPs get to design systems specific to their planet, and can then use them exclusively for a certain amount of time before the system is made available to all PPs.

    The fact Calypso is a daughter company of MindArk, and thus has MindArk itself compete with its partners should be a clear conflict of interest to anyone. The fact Jan's son is on the Calypso staff should be another clear reason for concern. The fact the Calypso CEO is a member of the board on MindArk should be clear reason for concern. This is not exactly rocket science, yet it seems there's a huge amount of Calypso players who are willing to argue that all of this does not matter.

    As long as you do not see that by trying to play both sides of the field, MindArk is actively undermining their very own platform, you really shouldn't be calling people who are bringing such issues to attention "whiners", because they are doing more to try and protect the integrity and success of this universe than you are. There's a thread here on EP detailing a large amount of occasions where Calypso is clearly being favored over any other planet partner. It ends up giving a (imo) clear indication that this behavior is on-going, and far from accidental. At the same time, we haven't even addressed such issues as events being organized on Calypso to coincide with events on other planets. I.e. Toulan launched, and promptly, Calypso decided to have a new robot event. Some of the other PPs have at least tried to hold back on events to give other PPs a chance to grab the spotlight, but Calypso does not seem to be interested in doing the same for some reason.

    The early access to systems/inside info problem is not specific to Mechs, though. Kim has also shown he's not above trying to claim another PPs system as his own.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

  3. My point is that you and other "anti-MA/Calypso" people are exaggerating the issue. Yes, Calypso probably gets a priority sometimes, but what company don't prioritize their biggest customer? Calypso have about 80-85 % the players, MA would be stupid not to prioritize and keep those players happy. You can't always hide the shortcomings of other planets behind some "It's all MA fault".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2014
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  4. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Or you and other pro-Calypso/MA people are missing or deliberately ignoring the elephant in the room. *IF* Calypso was controlled by a non-MA entity, you might have a point. However, that is not the case.

    It's a case of a platform provider favoring their own daughter company, that directly competes with the partners. MindArk should *not* be involved with Calypso, neither directly, nor indirectly. When they sold off Calypso to SEE, that posed (in my mind, at least), a perfect solution. Unfortunately, things did not work out so well, and so here we are. A platform provider fucking over it's own customers because it cannot seem to grasp the idea of impartiality. Heck, Calypso still shares the same office as MA. How does any PP ever stand a chance against that?

    I truly hope that whoever at this moment is considering doing business with MindArk will do their due diligence, and at least be aware of this bullshit. The Monria team also found out the hard way that MA's habits die hard.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. This is one of the main problem, you always talking about Calypso as "a competitor". Yes, there is competition between the planets, but it's very wrong when you are so focused on this. EU is one game, so the planet partners should focus more on bringing on more players to EU instead of worrying about Calypso and what they do and not do.
     
  6. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Uh huh. Every time a PP does anything, Calypso is there to try and interfere with an event of some kind. Calypso is the only PP with CLDs, hence there's a small army of CLD owners on every other PP attempting to try to get the newcomers to head down to Calypso, "because there's more players there", "because the economy there is better developed", "bla bla bla".

    That's why there's a cap on the amount of content that can be pushed every VU, because otherwise other PPs would have been able to easily surpass Calypso in amount of available content.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Ok, Interesting. So then treasure hunting was added to all PP but maybe they are not able to use it for two years or that this was a requested system that MA created for Arkadia and doesn't fall under the same contact rules?
     
  8. BS. I have mainly played on Arkadia since they launched, I own some CLD, I have never tried to suggest to players they should go to Calypso instead. I also never have heard any other player on Arkadia trying to recruit players to Calypso. But I also understand I players want to try Calypso, because it bigger.

    And saying that the problem is "cap on amount of content" is..... laughable. The problem is that the other planet partners are small and don't have much resources to make all the development that could be made to improve things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    There you are completely wrong. For example Cyrene has complete server areas full of content ready for launch for a loooong time already but they cannot be added to the game due to the MA's restrictions. This ensures that Calypso will always be have more content than any other planet.

    Another issue is the fact that PPs only get access to certain systems after they have acquired a specific amount of players. Making it dependent on number of players ensures that no planet can launch fully developed.

    Simply looks like MindArk are doing their very "best" to ensure no other planet will ever be able to compete with Calypso.

    Don't get me wrong, I've started on Calypso, I like Calypso and I still spend the grand majority of my time on Calypso. I even think the whole planet partner thing was the worst idea ever for the game. But MA's policies are fucked up, and less and less I can believe this is all just accidentally. Equal treatment can't be that difficult.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
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  10. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    That's how I understand the system works, yes.

    A PP designs a system on paper. MA implements said system (with their own interpretation of some of the details), and the PP who basically designed the system will get exclusive use of it for an agreed amount of time, after which it is made available to all PPs.

    So you're saying that just because *you* never did it, it simply doesn't happen at all? Because George Skywalker got warned for exactly what you claim is bullshit (yes, you can swear here without fear of getting censored). And George is far from an exception in this.

    Yeah, team Cyrene is tiny compared to the handful of employees employed by Calypso.

    [​IMG]

    No disrespect meant, Airboy, but perhaps you should start opening your eyes that there's a bunch of people who happen to know quite a lot more about what's happening behind the small scraps of info that MA chooses to spoonfeed you by.

    MindStar worked with Cyrene, and thus probably has far better insight into what goes on behind the doors there, as well as the interaction between MA and Team Cyrene. I have been in touch with pretty much every PP, with the notable exception of CRD, and I can honestly tell you that you don't know jack about how MA operates as a business. You see what they want you to see. Everything else is locked down by contracts, and thus even if a PP gets screwed by MA (and they are, on a regular basis), they wouldn't be allowed to tell you about it.

    The fact they insist on muzzling their partners in this manner by means of contracts should give you some clue. How this still managed to sucker people into signing up with them is completely beyond me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Actually, the fact you so easily dismiss the content cap, without apparently even contemplating whether or not it is true (hint: It is 100% true), shows that you perhaps happen to know a heck of a lot less about this whole universe or the company that runs it than you might have previously thought.

    There's a whole bunch of people out there who happen to know a lot more of this whole thing than is known on the forums. Some choose to keep that info to themselves, because they're regularly visiting Goteborg, and MindArk tosses them a bone every now and then. Others could care less about being favored by MindArk, and choose to try and use their knowledge to make this universe a better place for everyone.

    Call me a whiner and anti-MA guy all you like. Fact of the matter is that this website and everything connected to it (EntropiaTimes for one) has been a plain moneysink for me for years, and despite a number of negative posts, the great majority of content you will find on EntropiaPlanets, EntropiaTimes, or our wiki, is 100% promotional material for MindArk. The only reason why I haven't turned my back on EU as a whole was the hope that the new planet partner arrangement would somehow end up with MindArk maturing as a business. It hasn't happened yet, and I highly doubt it ever will.

    I sold off parts of the site to RAZER, Tass and narfi plain and simply because I came extremely close to flip the switch on this site several times, and I did not want to see the efforts of everyone who ever made a contribution on EP go to waste. I never made a penny of the site; far from, and yet, here I am, hoping, in my own little way, to make some kind of a positive difference on the way MA does business. I doubt I'll matter, and frankly I don't give a rat's ass anymore. As soon as I sold all my in-game crap (buy my items and skills, and you'll never read an anti-EU post from me ever again, I promise!), I'll uninstall EU and never ever come back.

    I assure you that my if my only motive was to bash MindArk, I'd have stopped throwing money at it a long time ago. MindArk doesn't need me to trash them. There's plenty of people there who are more than willing to do that, without it costing me a dime. I'd appreciate if you therefore cease with the name-calling (whiner / anti-MA / anti-Calypso) from now on, because you couldn't be further from the truth.
     
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  12. Nor Alien

    Nor Alien Wisker Fish

    Is this thread about controlled mobs... Or did I miss something?
    Anyway, I think this could be an excellent addition to the game. It will give some people a chance to test their skills against something that is human controlled rather then AI! :thumbsup:
     
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  13. You do understand that that are a PR picture and they are not actually all working with the Cyrene project? Because if they did they have done a very crappy job. Mindstar had a short carrier on Cyrene and fast out again, probably because the project was downsized. It still on some kind of beta stage or something like that.
     

  14. I think it can me a nice tool in events. What i wonder about is how it actually work. Do the controller move and control it from a first person view or to they move it and see it from a third person view? Does it work on flying mobs? It would be cool if it was in first person mode, you see what the mob see. If it work with flying mobs it could be used as "scouts"
     
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  15. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Or they did produce a lot more and simply haven't been able/allowed to release as much as they'd like due to a maximum amount of content allowed per VU.

    Oh wait, you already said that was BS and apparently you know better than several pps who mentioned the max content to me. My bad.
     
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  16. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    @Nor Alien ... yes, this thread is about controlled mobs, but what I absolutely enjoy and appreciate about EP is that contributions to any type of discussion can lead to valuable other contributions that have the potential for enlightening us all. I love the freedom that EP affords us in doing so, because it expands our understanding of the bigger picture and how it all fits into our own game of play, and how decision making by the developers definitely has an effect on us in more ways than good. Some just choose to ignore or dismiss the value of such, but again, it's their choice to accept or not accept what can be presented as FACT and not speculation or personal opinion.

    I've said myself that the controlled mobs might end up being a good thing depending on how the feature is used by MA and the PPs, or even if it should expand into a feature that the players can use, so I'm not knocking it whatsoever, nor that good things haven't been delivered to us at the hands of MA and PPs.

    However, I know first-hand from experience and from the mouths of developers (in print and otherwise) the challenges and hurdles that must be overcome in order to achieve some semblance of success with visions, and just how stifling and usurped their efforts are at the hands of others.

    Here are some FACTS for you ...
    • I was invited to join the Cyrene Writing Team by Ed Robles III (CEO) on July 15, 2011
    • I was scheduled not only to write Chronicles and character development of the characters that already existed in the storyline, but work on other projects like graphic novels, text content for an Xbox game, 3 movies that Ed still has in mind, work full-time as their Editor, other projects, and was even invited to be the Editor of his Father's 2nd book
    • Unfortunately, within a year, very little "official" writing was done due to a high level of demands on Ed's time with development and the challenges they faced, which I am not allowed to disclose
    • Ed and I worked in tandem with regard to story arc and character development, and we worked extremely well together ... it bothered him that he didn't have more time available
    • After a year with such limited time on his part, and me being restricted with an Official Avatar, it absolutely pained me to resign my position on July 16, 2012, but Ed and I didn't close the door
    • Peter is right ... Cyrene has a shitload of content ready to be released, but there is a restriction on the amount of content that PP's can deliver each VU
    • Ed's Grandfather and Father founded and own Creative Kingdoms International, and besides Ed's full-time development staff with Digital Scryers, he has up to 60+ skilled and very talented individuals he can choose from at times when he needs them to help with Cyrene development, so ... the quality is there, finished development is there, but restrictions and delays with systems has prevented Ed from delivering a host of great stuff that is sitting in the queue
    • And another FACT is ... the Cyrene project has never been downsized
    • Peter is also right about PPs needing a certain level of population before some of the systems are available to them (including adding apts and shops), and I happen to agree with Peter that this prohibits PPs from fully realizing their vision and innovative aspirations for their planet
    • Restricting PPs in this and other ways, but allowing the continued favoritism of Calypso in more ways than you can imagine (FACT), basically reduces the competing factor, and definitely adds an element of struggle for other PPs
    • It is also a FACT that ideas have been stolen by MA and Calypso where a PP has been told no, and the idea shows up on Calypso, but also to the degree where something was mentioned publicly that inspired getting attorneys involved, so ...
    • If you want to continue thinking MA and Calypso are squeaky clean and they have the right to treat other PPs as they do, then you are only walking blind and fooling yourself
    I'm coming up on my 9 year anniversary with EU (Apr 2nd), and I have led a privileged virtual life with MS9 as a media entity, not only with my network of connections over the years (much like some EP staff), but also as an official member of a PP team. This journey allowed me to gain information from the inside (openly) that I could share with the community in order to bring a different perspective when it came to development and the relationship between the developers and players through my writing (same as some EP staff).

    Entropia Planets has been (and continues to be) a great facilitator with respect to many of my efforts, and I am grateful, but ... I can also say that in the process of working closely with some of them, they have incredible investigative and news reporting skills that have brought information to this community that absolutely sheds more light on what is happening than one would normally be privileged to know.

    The year I spent as an official with Cyrene absolutely opened my eyes, and gave me an understanding of the bigger picture that most don't have access to, and are only able to speculate about things based on bits and pieces of information that never tell the whole story. I also became very close with a few others in very prominent positions over the last several years, and learned "first-hand" some very disturbing truths, and as such, there is no way in hell I would ever accept that PPs are treated fairly.

    I share, not with speculation, not with second-guessing, or even personal opinion, but with FACT as much as I can reveal without posting actual conversations in print, or sharing other documentation that I have. If you choose to dismiss it, then you have the right to continue accepting what is fed to you blindly and make your way accordingly, but ...

    To discount the FACT that there are some of us who actually know what the hell is going on behind the scenes is making a choice to live in fantasyland, rather than giving some thought to what you and other players have already experienced through the actions of the developers. It's not just about MA, but there are others involved in development in one capacity or another within our universe that have done harm to other developers (even to MA), as well as players. However, it seems that players complain about it for a bit and it eventually gets lost in the muck and mire of other things that distract focus.

    I have been very open about sharing FACTS as much as I can without blowing the door off the virtual vault, as well as what my personal opinions are. I believe I have distinguished between the two, and have said many times over that I don't hate this universe. I love the concept, the potential, and I don't think MA has done everything wrong or bad. They just continue to make some really poor management decisions, and they also allow their favoritism with Calypso, as well as certain players (yes, that is a FACT as well) to cloud not only their development judgment, but also their fairness as it relates to PPs and players.

    There's a huge discrepancy in this area, and as Peter stated, the PPs are absolutely restricted with regard to their actions and what they can reveal or share. They are not allowed to talk about other PPs openly, and they are absolutely not allowed to talk about MindArk ... good or bad, other than the usual diplomatic responses should players ask questions. That's why certain websites are stifled or controlled, and Planet Toulan has now joined those ranks due to its hosting partner.

    Think and believe what you will, but there are many who have no issue whatsoever sharing their analysis and evaluation of what they have experienced over the years, even those who haven't been around as long as some of us have. That has to have some value, and if some continue to dismiss this kind of information, then they have only themselves to answer to when it doesn't go so well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
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  17. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Back on-topic, one would hope that this new system comes with a clear manual on what is and what is not allowed in regards to controlling mobs. This just happened on Calypso.

    An "Entropy the Purger" (a shared-loot, boss-like-mob that takes a lot of effort to bring down) mob yielded no loot whatsoever (like the Hussk did many moons ago; a bug that MindArk stated was addressed). People filed a support ticket, and were told by support that the EULA has a clause that technical issues are a get-out-of-jail-for-free card for MA, and they won't be compensating for any losses.

    Source: http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...59522-Entropy-the-Purger-no-loot-support-case

    Kim, who spawned the Entropy mobs, decided to help players by bringing down another boss-mob with his special high-damage gun (Formerly known as the Marco-gun, which was supposed to never yield any loot) to clear it. It apparently dropped 3k worth of loot, which Kim then dropped on the floor to be collected by a single lucky hunter.

    KillingEntropy.png

    At the same time Kim explained that the no-loot Marco-gun no longer is a no-loot gun:

    MarcoGun.png

    Source: http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...-Kim-Calypso-dropped-the-loot!-2856-70-PED-xD

    Finally, Kim spawned a Hussk. A Hussk normally requires a lot of people to work together, and a significant investment before it can be spawned. If I recall correctly, the cost to spawn one was around 5000 PED (500 USD). With the new system, however, they can be spawned at will by a PP:

    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?259507-Did-the-Hussk-spawn


    All the above is a perfect example of why some people are insisting on MindArk having document procedures in place:

    1) The Marco gun, which was officially announced as being unable to lead to loot on a killed MOB, apparently now is able/allowed to drop loot. This chance apparently was made without anyone knowing (other than Kim, and perhaps some others). However, it has a serious impact on how a PP can interact in the universe. It would have been better had that change been communicated to the player base. After all, it was explained as being a non-loot weapon, like the turrets before. If it was changed, why wasn't the change communicated? It's all about being transparent.

    2) The PP rules state that PPs who participate in events cannot influence the economy. Here's an example of a PP randomly dropping almost 3k of loot into the hands of a single player. How is that "not influencing the economy", exactly? In the statement MindArk released above, it also states (in relation to special event items):

    A PP dropping the loot on the floor seems to be a direct violation of that rule.

    3) The ability for a PP to spawn a MOB that otherwise costs 5k PED to summon seriously drives down the value of the individual components required to summon that MOB. The MOB is intended to be extremely rare, and thus the drops of these components are limited. I assume that this is related to the loot the MOB generates (The Womrslayer armour). The armour dropped, despite the components for the MOB not having been consumed. This disturbs the loot balance, that the balancing team carefully tweaked (*cough*).


    I cannot help but feel that the above series of events once again was a poorly thought-out action by a lone-ranger PP, who continues to be able to get away with things that other PPs would have been chastised for by MindArk. I might be totally wrong in that, but once again, due to a lack of clear communication, all we can do is string facts together, and then form our own conclusions.
     
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  18. Yes you have "inside information" from Cyrene because you have worked their and some of you have good contact with them still today. But you can't claim to have "the big picture" because you have not worked at the MA office and now everything what is going on. You can't know every fact of why MA do things. somethings could look like a bad choice from your view, but if you had all the facts maybe it was a necessary choice for MA to do.

    Also, I have never claimed that the restriction about the amount of content release was not restricted, but I pretty sure that is not the main problem for Cyrene.
     
  19. I agree that they should have clear rules what they be allowed and not allowed do to. Dropping loot for a random player do take is a bit questionable, they should have restriction and rules on how to handle loot they get. The controlling functions should not be overused, but mostly used in special events. But it's a new feature so I guess they like to test it and play around a bit with it.
     
  20. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space


    Apparently you gloss over information that is provided because it clearly implies that the sources are not all from one person or PP, and no one can know every move or decision that MA makes accept MA, but ... it appears that you use that general come-back as a valid argument without considering the information that has been provided to you and the rest of the community.

    You basically called valid and credible sources liars, and these valid and credible sources are people that work at MA, PPs, and associates that have shared solid information that absolutely supports what is being presented by myself and others. You are now grasping at straws and winging it because you've taken up a defensive posture and are in a state of defending just to defend, rather than even considering the plausibility of information that has been shared.

    And just for the record, in almost 9 years, it wasn't only Cyrene officials I interacted with, which is what it seems that you are implying, and is far from the truth. I get it though, you don't want to accept that anything is flawed, or that things we bring to the community's attention actually happen, but rest assured it does, and will continue to happen.

    However, if you choose to look the other way and make excuses for those things that are clearly not in the best interest of PPs or players, then that is your choice, but I would appreciate it if you would stop calling us liars (in so many words) for what we share, it's not appreciated.
     
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