Solving the TT problem once and for all...

Some have tried in past and failed...

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...ution-(STTS)&p=1485471&viewfull=1#post1485471

 

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...-PED-saver**&p=3071385&viewfull=1#post3071385

 

More can try in the future... As far as making things disappear, that is what balancing manager should keep from happening.

 

I've often thought about this subject, not because I dislike TTing things since they typically just get cycled right back into the loot system, but because of the limited functionality of shops. I see Mesh is in this thread and I'm sure he can attest to how much of a pain it is to keep a shop stocked.

I've often thought that shops should have some sort of automated buying process that works similar to auction orders. Shop owners would select which item(s) they want, how much they are willing to pay, and then people could go to that shop and fill those "Shop Orders".

That's the only solution I've been able to come up with over the years that I think would be viable long term. If the buying process for shops were automated like the selling process is then it would encourage a lot of investment in game and substantially boost demand for shops.

So to think that through further... that feature would be a huge upgrade in functionality for a shop. I think that feature should be exclusive to something similar to a Shopkeeper, perhaps called a Shop Buyer. Instead of MindArk making that a paid upgrade for a shop, long term I think they would earn more with their core model of micro payments, decay per transaction, like a Shopkeeper. If the Shop Buyer was found in the loot by hunters, well naturally any new item of value will encourage more people to go out and grind.

 

Interesting things you mention HardWrath, as I was reading your reply I came up with another idea.
Because you mentioned that it is a pain to keep the shop stocked I was thinking about the process of placing each single item and putting a price on them. What if you could automate that? In this location I've placed one item at the price of TT+1ped, as soon as that item is sold I want another one of the same item to be placed in the same location for the same price. And I have 100 of these items available.
Guess there are drawbacks with this as well but at least it would help keeping shops stocked...

I also quickly thought about the STTS as mastermesh linked.

 

I've also thought about an automated replenishment system like you mentioned.

In my opinion, it's just common sense, and I don't know why MA's hasn't done an overhaul of shops, ever. I'm tempted to post something in Dev's corner over on PCF.

 

Just stop and think for a moment about how amazing EU would be if it had a vibrant and robust economy... All the activity, turnover, ped cycling, and micropayments that would be created as a result.

All that MA has to do is give us the tools to make it happen.

 

The shop buyer idea has been floated to MA a while ago. Last I heard, it had been received favourably but I've heard nothing again since. I'll try and find out more and let you guys know when/if I do

 

Hi,

Some good ideas discussed in this thread so far. I do feel however that the NPC shop buyer is the second step in the process with needing to address a better selling outlet system first.

It is all good and fine to have a shop NPC that acts as your purchasing/restocking assistant up to the point you hit the bottleneck of being fully restocked for extended periods of time.

Within Entropia, due to the performance impact Malls & Shops have on various configurations of participants PCs in that not everyone can afford a topline PC to use. One must cater for a better outgoing sale distribution system in giving the participant the flexibility to either do one of two things:

A. Run around to shops one by one if they wish;
B. Offer a single transaction point for a group of shops within a district or mall.

I would start with B before implementing a purchasing NPC which can be justified to ease the workload and time required on successfully achieving a high sales turnover.

In the past as Lavawalker, I did offer such an idea.
So here it goes again. Refine it as you wish to suit present day requirements, eg. 3. Shop maintenence fee expires has since changed in that shops no longer have rental fees attached etc.

Link > http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...55630-District-based-market-systems-for-shops

District based market systems for shops (Refine to bring up to present day needs).
Hi,

Since FPC has made a commitment to improving Calypso; Or better stated, putting in the work that should have been put in over time in the first place.

I make the following suggestion to improve the state of the shops & shopping malls implementation upon Calypso to bring them back to life and restore their value.

Idea :

Independent District Market systems, NPC driven
(not attached to the Auctioneer system)

It would operate in a similar way the Auctioneer system would work, using all the same UIs yet run as independent systems for each mall & district.

Mall systems - PA Mall, TP Mall, EL Mall systems
City district markets - Sukura, TI city, Omegaton, etc.

The market would list items via shop number, and location (building or mall lvl)

Only items located in a shop estate would be listed, not those in shopkeeper pads or other containers providing extention.

Listing dynamics :

1. Shop owner places item in the shop on display, sets price to sell for xx ped.
Local district market updates.

Item name - TT Value - Opening Bid - Buy Out Price - Shop Number & Location.
(No time left included)

2. Shop owner places item and does not set a price, no update to district market.

3. Shop maintenence fee expires.

All items placed within the shop (not including those in containers such as shopkeepers) have their sale values removed, also removing them form the local market NPC and requiring the shop owner to pay the maintenence fee and go around setting all the prices on items before they are added to the local district market again.

Local district market NPC listing would display shop as closed on the UI window and display no listed items.

This way,

Those who are patient, or have the time to flurry around to each and every shop for the millionth time to see what is new and exciting in each of these shops can do so.

Those who can't justify spending time running around for the next hour or so to find what they are looking for can access the independent district market for each city area / mall and purchase what is available from a central location.

Hence adding a dualistic value back to the shop concept in Entropia which at present as a whole I see as somewhat being a flop in requiring much more effort than it is worth at times to make a success due to the lifestyle attitudes of most around the world today in this era of Rush, Rush, Rush, there is never enough time and those who generally do not like the concept of procrastination before undertaking their desired primary activities within the universe.

 

District & Mall "shop directories" anyone ?
http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...Problem-with-In-game-shops-and-apartments-etc

 

Yes viper I like your system here would be great if something like this would be setup where one could go to the mail enter in what they are looking for and then a waypoint would show up with all shops with the item.

 

Aye, or alternatively for those with low spec PCs (To save on loading game assets along the way) another cool feature ...

supajosh said:

"imagine if we were to have this directory. where you could search items of interest > wouldn't it be cool if the shop-owners could buy a 'micro teleporter' so people could use the directory to tp people straight into their shop from anywhere on the planet? MA should love this as these tps could be a few k ped and work similarly in placement to a shopkeeper for example.

combined these two things would eradicate lots of current shop problems"

 

No offence Wistrel but it seems pretty clear the problem isn't the fact shit is getting tt'd , it's just a symptom...it's a base problem. Crafting. The endgame from hunting and mining at the end of the day is crafting. You want to stop people tt'ing shit you make a proper crafting system where things that are looted are worth something to a crafter.I don't tt my copper or zinc...or my fragments or oils because i'm too lazy to find the auction. It's because it's not worth doing anything with. Like i'm gonna save some shitty oils to a zillion ped and get 1% or less and the guy buying them is gonna have to tt the shit he makes with that zillion oils cause it's not worth shit either...lol As long as the crafting system is broken the game is crippled...Thank Kim...he's determined to focus on hunting and boss mobs and nothing else...he doesn't get it and i don't think he ever will. And people can say what they want about him "only running Calypso" but if anyone doen't think he's got Daddy's ear they are in a fantasy world...They are focused on selling people shares in anything they can flog, and ignoring the base of the game...it's what will eventually kill the game if they don't get back to it...So you make your threads about the TT, and dream about what if......just remember, if the shit people were tt'ing was worth something it's wouldn't go in the tt to begin with.

 

After re-reading my post this morning, It sounds angry. Just so you know Wistrel, any hostility is for MA and the game makers...not you. or your thread.

 

I would agree steve. the loss of crafters/good crafting kills the economy

 

Pretty much hitting the nail on the head from the economy aspect in creating routine from start to finish whereby the finish becomes the begining again in a fluctuating (expanding & shrinking) economy in producing a demand for that which is gathered through hunting and mining (supply) to retain value.

A subject for another time as far as I go as I would like to see developments on the fronts mention earlier (Food for thought roundup #1) that will see progress in such areas as economy dynamics, like creating 'supply and demand' and other such things eg Opportunities/etc.

Even though "Afterworld" got a lot closer to producing such a system, it also has "many" flaws in the system they have proposed as well, never the less it is a step closer.

People like "Dalewj" above and "Fifth" can also give a better overview of the depth of AW's system, including crafting system to support their concept of creating a cyclic economy.

A TT is necessary as a sink in the economy to remove unneeded rubbish (Also various implementations of recycling/augmenting/etc can work well also in complementing this in giving rubbish further use), however "to use one example" such things as UnLimited items & repair terminals that just add TT value to the economy in resources obtained do simulated economies no favours, especially in their currently implemented state in Entropia Universe in making it almost impossible to balance the cycle and create proper simulated opportunities over time without the need to employ other methodology that has detrimental impacts on other areas of the game and people who use the service that are not immediately seen until the damage is done which becomes hard to contain and manage in terms of the cascading-fallout produced over time ....

Sure "some of these" other methods DO resemble real life too for the lemmings that walk into such traps, however that lemming is a customer of the service who invests into the service's "further future" financially.

Side note to keeping in mind while reading all this: We wouldn't need to see the short-term money-grabs (eg.events & frequency of these events/etc) that MindArk presently employ to bolster and/or maintain its bottomline.

Purposefully burning/killing off a lemming is not a wise move, especially in the case of AoE on lemmings and the knockon effect it has on other lemmings in the community (Faith/Confidence/etc).

Well that is my attempt to put a lighter edge on things, please do not take offense to the use of the word lemmings = "paying/investing participants" above, below will demonstrate it better

Ultimately you want to save all the lemmings to continue participating in Entropia Universe .... However ...
Achieving this is unrealistic also as it presents no challenge relating to those risks present IRL that drive each of us as humans to succeed, and/or "persevere with the experience while learning, growing and evolving passed it through to the next challenge ..." so people will get bored and move on anyway.

But constantly doing this like Entropia Universe does to its paying/investing participants in an attempt to get to the next stage is not the right approach either ;)

The later being the shortsighted methodology that MindArk continues to employ for its paying/investing customers in terms of the economy aspect.

ie. Lose a small 5-10% or under, its going to happen anyway, but to employ a 90-95% method of losing lemmings to get to the next stage in the game's development/evolution/progress/etc is unnecessary lol.

So grats to MinD-ark (Jan-and Co.) for a well thought out simulated economy over the years.
Furthermore grats for not listening to all those (many) who have tried to help along the way.
Including identifying "some of" the underlaying issues as to why this is not occuring (click)
Maybe a dinner with <insert relevant person's name here> may have helped ... (click) ~ 3:30+

nth degree fx: Still need further assistance ?

Maybe things like this would help ... or ...

Better still, coming up to 2014 "Stand Out from the Crowd" methods like this:

People love to say "Adapt or Die" without realising the same applies to the game development company within this "Consumer First" oriented and over-crowded (Beyond saturated) market-space; "Innovate or Die" in that people/consumers wake up eventually also in respect to this.

When I say innovate, I do mean "innovate" and not copy others concepts in changing a few small things (or a word or two in the written material produced by those within your own Entropian community) and then calling it your own without adequately acknowledging respectifully or rewarding/paying in some form those who produced it.

/small-example-idea-and-sarcasm-that-follows-start

Such innovations like the sentient Molisk who has on condition agreed to follow you around in your adventures and collect loot (Amongst other things), that you met on one of the immersive storyline quests (concept demonstrated - click) who is now an outcast from his/her kin due to X, Y & Z reasons that occured within the storyline mission that you were immersively involved in, on the basis you continue to feed him/her (eg. fruits/vibrant sweat/etc mixes) and provide shelter over time ...

Spoiler: examples

Maybe as stable feature extention or ... as a part of the possible estate that could be built on CLD purchased land (example concept click) to name a few

Incurring a cost to you to obtain these things yourself or from other participants in the RCE environment ...
etc ...

Anyway point being;

It is good to see MA put in such effort towards expanding the dimension of involvement/interest/goals/achievements/sense-of-belonging-with-having-an-impact-on-outcomes/etc in a game they boast can that can handle millions of simultaneous users at once and at least a few hundred within an event area (..Um really..) including pets/hirelings/companions/etc than take the lazy arsed route of "let's create a loot pill" that makes no sense what-so-ever in that it magically obtains the loot from fallen foes/mobs in game with no effort other than to visit a Trade-Terminal (TT) and consume such a pill.

MindArk deserves recognition and reward for the efforts involved in producing such good gameplay elements and not the 'TT loot-pill' version that screams out to the player development laziness and pay MA more for the little effort put in to this feature.

/small-example-idea-and-sarcasm-that-follows-end

Enough time and energy on this "for now" ...

Trying to not be too negative to encourage the other end of the fanbase spectrum to start playing WaM
More in "Food for Thought" package roundup # 2 or # 3, depending on how things go with # 1.

PS. Yes, MindArk has put a lot of effort into forum participant textures, so much you can't even tell the difference from a Troll wanting to destroy the game and a Fan wanting to see at least improvement to 2010+ era industry standards instead of making a mockery out of themselves (MA, and their planet partners) and those who are involved with them (The consumer/participant) ... ;)