Neverdie Studios Avatars to retire

@ Dr-M-

Are you disputing the Facts? Or just trying to make this personal.?

Fact - ND and staff were contractually obliged to retire their personal avatars. They knew this when they signed the contract allowing them to build/own RT.

As were FPC who are MA

Correct.



Fact - they did not do this.
Nor has FPC - ND (and co.) is the first to publicly say he is retiring his avatars. No word from FPC who have blatantly said in the past they play under normal conditions but cannot withdraw PED, still undrestricted play.

FPC play on OFFICIAL avatars, which is an option for Jon Jacobs. He , however as he said on Neverdie.com, does not see the "intrinsic value" of a "toy" avatar that cannot "cashout, trade or mess with the economy etc so are not worth putting time into".
He can play as FPC do, but he choses not to.


Fact - they have been reminded by MA of their obligations. MA should have enforced this action around 9 months ago when RT opened, but they didnt, and now that people have "brought it to their attention" they have no choice but to enforce it.

If you do not work for MA, or for ND, or were involved in the agreement process or unless you were told each and every one of these 'facts' directly from ND or MA - then this is all second hand smoke, he said - she said.


Ummmm..... Neverdie said himself that it had been "brought to his attention" that he was required to retire his private avatar , a requirement stated in the Planet Partners agreement. He does not disputed this fact. So in answer to your stipulation , Neverdie himself told me.



Big-nosing yourself when you arent involved is petty.

Personal attacks??? Well I always have questioned everything you have said , havent I. I never attacked you persoanally though.



FPC are MA employees under a different guise. Are they under different contractual obligations? They should know the EULA better than most. Seems like a double standard to me - were MA going to remind FPC employees too.

Such a one sided argument Tayz. ND is not the only planet partner. FPC are MA and they cant even follow their own rules.

Enlighten us all with an account of all the rules MA have broken, with regard to FPC? Im curious about it. Your right in saying ND is not the only planet partner, but it would seem he is the only one currently breaking the agreement. If you have some proof that other PP's are doing the same then please share that info with everyone. No-one is immune, if other PP's are doing the same then it should be made public and stopped.

 

Could we maybe try to avoid a "Calypso" thread here?
ND has to retire his avatar. That sucks. We could argue technicalities but bottom line we can't change it so getting huffed up about it isn't going to help.

 

Sorry if you think I was getting "huffed up", but being told that posting one post in a public forum, on a topic already in discussion is "petty" and "big nosing" myself is a personal attack. As such I answered the stated concerns and asked that he expand with his understanding and knowledge of how FPC/MA are "breaking their own rules".

As to my comments about always questioning what he ( Dr-M-) says, that is a reference to a conversation we had when we were in a society together on Calypso and he said that I always questioned everything he said. I left the society so he would not be reluctant to participate in society discussion, as he told me he was, for fear that I would question him. I did not disclose why I left, as I did not feel that it was anybody elses business.

Either way his personal comment is unwarranted and deserved to be answered.

 

I wasn't speaking to you personaly Tayz. Or any one person for that matter. I could see that tension was starting to build. NI has a very small comunity, and I like NI, so I am doing what I can to make the NI comunity appealing to new players.
If you have seen my posts on the Calypso forums then you know I don't care much about politics, but here I am watching my own posts closely, and trying to stop petty arguments before they begin.

EDIT: I just got baned from the Calypso forum, so you can't check my posts there.

 

Tayz, think what you like. Its quite sad that you need to bring up that up as a defence. My comment has nothing to do with the past. Nothing to do with a previous Soc. My comment was not a personal attack - if you think that, you need to let go of the past. Stick to the topic. Making it personal, not I.

My comment only relates to your posts regarding repeated complaints about ND. Never seen you whine on PCF before but its all you tend to do on here when it comes to ND.

If you posted these concerns about ND in a more general sense then I wouldnt care, however, to finger out an individual and harp on those issues is what a have a problem with.

 

You think calling someone "petty" and "big nosing" isnt personal? You must have a very different notion of what is personal than I do.

As for "sticking to the topic", as you demand I do , Isnt the topic ND and his having to retire his Avatar? Is that not what I wrote about? Or did I get that completely wrong, in your opinion?
If posting the truth about the reason ND and his staff have been told to retire their Avatars is whining, then so be it. I have posted nothing that ND himself has not confirmed or said himself. It is important that people actually understand the reasons that this request has been made, and that it is not MA picking on ND as some people seemed to think initially. Any comments I have made that have been a personal opinion have been clearly stated as being a personal opinion. No-one, so far, seems to have had a problem with my personal opinion - including you, yet you call posting fact as whining. Confusing in a logical world, understandable in an emotional one.
To repeat, yet again, I dont have a problem with ND.In fact I have praised what he has done for EU in the past, and given him credit for being a very good business man.
I do have a problem with someone POTENTIALLY taking advantage of others and suggesting that they may have been unaware of their legal obligations, particularly when they portray themselves as a savvy business man. It is unreasonable and illogical to believe that it could have escaped his and his lawyers notice that it was part of the business agreement that he signed and was inevitable. In fact I did blame MA for not enforcing this sooner, hence creating this mess to start with, by not doing so earlier. As neither ND nor MA have given a reason as to why it has taken so long it is impossible to state with any certainty the true reasons. Coreys comment on PCF, suggesting that ND had been allowed to run with his personal avatar for so long because the option of an official one was unavailable, until now, is actually a very reasonable suggestion and makes logical sense. I have not seen anyone else post a reasonable explaination for this "oversight". If anyone else had placed themselves in the same position, then I would have issue with that too.

This is an emotional issue for many people - they dont want to see their "idol" retire his avatar, simply because they have enjoyed his company and gameplay and admire the man. I get that - everybody gets that, but this is not an emotionally based issue. Emotion has played no part in his retirement of the avatar Neverdie. This has been coming since the day he signed the Planet Partner agreement , and not something that has been dragged out of the blue and an unpleasant surprise. My posts have been to inform those who believed that this was MA "picking" on ND that there was actually valid and legal reasons for this being done, and not a simple case of "tall poppy syndrome".

Facts are important, and everyone has the right to be informed of them. No-one , except you, has disputed the facts as I have stated them, and these facts have indeed been confirmed by Jon Jacobs himself, so I have not been challenged to produce proof - simply because it is the truth, confirmed and stated by Jon Jacobs himself, that I wrote. As such it is unreasonable to believe that I have been whining about ND -or that my post have been anything but general information, available to anyone who has a mind to look for that information themselves.

Again any personal opinion I have expressed has been clearly stated as personal opinion, and I am entitled to express my opinion, as is everyone else, based on the known facts. If you wish to assess my personal opinions as unfair to ND , then by all means you may express that opinion. As you chose to question the basis of my factual statements, and not my personal opinion , I am at a loss as to why you state that I have not " posted theses concerns in a more general sense" or why you think I have " finger out an individual and harp on those issues". Pointing out facts is not harping.

On a further issue, you expressed your opinion that MA/FPC were breaking their own rules. I asked you to clarify that statement, and would appreciate it if you would do so. If MA are breaking their own rules then this is another issue that needs to be addressed. Please provide the basis for that statement , so that it may be further discussed.

 

why dont you two just agree to disagree and move on?

arguing is not going to benefit anyone, if anything it will make people feel worse, so just drop it plix... heck,if you do, ill even throw in free hugs to both of you ;)
*stretched out his stingers* you know you want to... come here you! :)

to get back on the topic, i dont know what goes right now, if they are or are not allowed to play, or are allowed to play with certain restrictions (who can beta-test the code better than the coders themselves?)
either way, i hope it works out to the best for all involved

 

Happy to oblige you, and everyone else in this matter. My points have been made , no benefit will come from continuing the debate with DR-M-. Although I do admit that I would like a clarification, as requested, of the MA/FPC points he made.
Think that I might just give the hug a miss, if thats ok with you - dont currently have any "STINGOES" and really dont want to have to use urine, mine or especially anyone elses * shudders*.

I would imagine that the retirement would occur very quickly,but how much time has been allocated to affect this change is still unknown, as no-one with that knowledge has yet commented . They should however take advantage of the offer of official avatars, despite the lack of appeal shown for "toy"avatars, as this is the only way in which they will be able to fully test their code properly. I dont imagine that it would take that long to create these avatars for them - its not like they have to create a whole new code. Once they are done it would be reasonable to assume that time would be very limited with their original avatars. I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

Haha! Im with ya. I asked to be removed from EF while I was a noob to this game after coming to the conclusion that the EF community found offering insults easier than offering information. It still strikes me as ridiculously arrogant that my initial request was answered with a sentence stating that my desire for account removal would not be honored because I still had much to learn that the community there could offer me. Wow. Really?

Im watching myself here as well, because of much the same reasons. Next Island is a place where I feel people can get together early and start a trend towards a positive community, so in that spirit I'd like to do my part.

Im not getting super hopeful. I have a low troll tolerance and will likely have to pull the plug on my account at some point. But until then Im enjoying the discussions offered thus far.