Editorial: The story of NEVERDIE. Truth, or fiction?

Great article Peter and a very ambitious one! It's obvious that ND has to be investigated/challenged in articles like this one, in order for him to improve and for EU to be able to grow and prosper, I'd say absolutely necessary...

 

As always I am greatly appreciative that you think it is important to take the time to answer my questions. Thank you! :)

I think you missunderstood my post.

When I said pull the plug, I meant take the whole thing away from him, not slap him on the wrist. :)

You have raised a point that I was not aware of. What I was not aware of was that MA made a statement of any kind. lol I don't even remember reading about it or that anyone had directed a post about it. If so, did MA say in a post that ND was in clear violation of the PP agreement? I thought Neverdie was the one that told us about the PP agreement and playing his personal avatar. He mentioned he wasn't aware of the agreement and that MA told him it was against the rules.

You said that the evidence comes from his own mouth yet you and I agree that we can't take what ever ND says at face value. So can we trust that he is telling us all the facts about being or not being in COI or that he even talked to MA in the first place? LOL this confuses me just a bit becuase we are saying the same thing.. we can't trust anything he has said. :) I hope you see my point on this one cause it is the basis of the whole discussion.

Im not discounting anything. I am simply saying there is no word from MA, that I am aware of, that there has been a breach of contract. Of course if MA made that statement, that I did not see, then all of what I am saying goes out the window! lol And no I don't believe that he or anyone else that works for him should be allowed to loot or discover new items. Also I don't believe you would give any false info.

Do we really know who this DAmgr is? I mean it could be ND for all we know.. lol I love it when I add fuel to the fire at my own expense! I think this guy is full of poop!! And yes if this is true then he is still playing on RT with full impunity.

That only makes it worse.. I think you agree with me on this, but if they are not giving us good information then it is not really information thats worth shite!! lol This doesn't give us enough to definitively say yes there is a rotten apple amongst the crowd. Thier lack of real action in the face of all this makes it hard to even take this seriously at all, or them for that matter. Also if you wouldn't mind, can you direct me to this post.. Again I am not up to speed.

Anytime you have to wonder if something is right or wrong, you should definitely raise questions. I truely believe in reporting improper behavior to the powers that be so it can be rectified once and for all.. Like you said MA dropped the ball on this. They did this by not saying anything concrete at all. Their silence is is defening and leads us to believe that either it is ok to allow this kind of behavior or that infact there was no rules broken. Or worse of all, they really don't care...

ND can't be taken at face value.. I agree, but then when he admitted he was in the wrong, it makes it hard to believe he is telling the truth. I know it is a terrible argument to make but you see my point.. Well I hope! ;)

LOL sometimes people never learn and do these things over and over again. We are not privy to how things really turned out in these cases so it could of worked without us knowing about it. For all we know, this brings in 100k people into the universe and we are all eating humble pie. lol

The evidence that is before all of us does raise question absolutely, and it should. The thing thats not absolute is MA's response to all of this. Untill they give a real and not criptic answer, we are stuck trying to make sense of it with what info they have given. Their answers so far don't say "This is what PP can do and this is what they can't do." Whats worse is MA has not given us any real answers about alot of stuff that happens in this universe from very early on so its unlikely that they will anytime soon. (lol like you said) Since we don't have access to the PP agreement, and I guess this is probably for the good, we don't know what it says. For all we know, we would be very upset at what PP can do! lol

This is the easiest question to answer so far. Very simply, you want to know what the hell is going on. Until you do, you keep the pressure on!!

Last thing. The whole point of my post is, without an answer from MA themselves, and not second hand, it's hard to say he is doing wrong by the system. Especially since it seems that this is still going on at this very moment. The real question we should be asking ourselves is why are we allowing MA to play these games and if we are so concerned about it, why for the love of god are we still here!! lol The last part boggles my mind when you read some peoples posts nowadays!!

I do hope I was a bit clearer with my answers. Don't hesitate to ask any questions or to put me in my place! ;) A good conversation is like a rare whine............ yeah not sure where I was going with this!! lol

 

To Alien ... I just have one question ... are you calling ND a liar?

It would seem so, and that you don't take the statement he made in this thread seriously, when it clearly makes known that the dictate was handed down by MA. I'm not sure what you are looking for to make it any more official.

I put the quote here to make it easier, but also linked to the RT forum thread by ND.

At this point, I'm really done with this, because now it's just becoming a really big head shaker.

 

MS9, as absurd as it might seem, if you look at the larger picture and also count in a certain behave pattern of his entourage and employees, what Nor Alien implies makes a lot of sense.

 

Ya know, pp agreement, rules and laws aside, it's just completely unethical to have been behaving in the ways that he has been, IMO. Some will argue against that, it's a very polarizing issue.

 

Thank you to VF for answering my queston so thoroughly.

Very informative article.

 

From op
"So the club nets 100,000 USD, but the man owning it somehow is estimated (again, by whom is nowhere mentioned) to be worth 1 million USD. Again, no references to who estimates this worth, or what it is based on. Not even a mention that the 1 million dollars is the amount he could feasibly pull out at any given moment (i.e. liquid assets)."

Although I don't disagree that ND is a bit enthusiastic with his press releases and interviews I really have to take issue with his virtual worth not being over $1 million $$ at the time of his statements and essentially being called a liar. You've answered it yourself that he didn't mention liquid assets. At that time - his skills, items like armor, weapons etc were well worth the difference of what he was making from CND. At that time CND was booming and 10k a month was probably a low estimate and I think there are threads on other places about it all including the amount of peds pulled in based on tracker. I don't though think Tracker was in place during the hay day of CND.

When he's done these interviews I think he stated what he believed would happen. Things like Space Pirates for example. Why would the man make posters and do so much promotion for something that wasn't going to happen? I'm sure he thought is would be in the near future and he had no control over MA getting it done like they had probably agreed to. But then, maybe ND should have known better given he NEVER got all of CND, like the events area etc that was supposed to have came with it. MA never finished it.

I'm fairly certain that ND at one time had a solid offer of 1 million $ for CND and turned it down. I'm pretty sure he now wishes he had accepted it. At that time though with the income it was generating and his true belief in EU overall, he didn't accept.

So, no, I don't think he's 'lied' in his statements at all. I think he stated what was overall true at the time. Yes, his value was over 1 million $. Please check guiness book of world records too for all the other stuff going on and him paying the most etc... Also more recent Forbes magazine about people to watch. (sorry can't provide link)

Google isn't the end all of information. Anshe and Lindon labs got a LOT more advertisement, interviews and the like for them to be on the top of a search. That's how Google works. Should it be more easily found there? I do not know and honestly it really doesn't matter. What does matter is him being called a liar about not being worth $1 million in game given all of his assets. He was at that time, there's no doubt in my mind about that fact. Why would it matter if he gave all the details or not in an interview? He was talking about CND mostly and it's income generation.

Before I get called and ND fan boy please note my back ground with him - Yes, I've met him irl, yes, I'm in one of his videos dancing with him. Yes, I got to know his 'avatar' a bit when on CND and he helped me as well as many others and I tried to help back in return. No, I don't really know him personally.

It's apparent to me that he honestly believes in EU and the whole concept of it. He has brought more promotion than any other single entity including MA. I'm sure he's brought more people to this place than anyone, including myself as I'm a CND baby.

That all said: I've been more than willing to post in other places things I've thought were wrong, esp the relationship with MA and his personal avatar after becoming a pp and developer. MA did the right thing but I blame MA for allowing it to go on so long and not just ND. His using the other avvy of his gf that had passed on I'm sure was more of a promotion thing in his mind. It was wrong to do but I don't think it was done with malice or overall bad intent. I think what was gotten away with is more overall due to the seemingly nepotistic nature of MA, their employees and friends of employees. It's how it was and MA didn't control things as they should have, period. I honestly wonder just how much this has changed. Seems ND has been 'kicked out' of the inner circle but I wonder about others.

His employees never ever should have been allowed to have avvies in game and the like. His business should have clearly designated areas to prevent abuse and insider information. Yes, he should have known to do this given the set up of MA and I'm sure he's been there and seen that. It's now been taken care of (we hope) But we have to rely on MA to enforce such things and keep track of them.

I think RT has been a huge disappointment to me. I was so happy when it all was ready to come out and ready to leave Calypso for ever. I had intended on going there and helping build the community and the like but it was so bad... well.. :(

I do though appreciate his enthusiasm. I do want him to succeed in all of this. I do think he has some people around him that obviously are incompetent or at least don't have the needed knowledge. (An example is the ingredients vs crystal value for getting to Greece and why it's so hard to make them) The release of 2.0 is not as good as it should be in part to someone there not having the ability to create a decent forum with much needed information.

I think we all want him to succeed overall as it helps us all. I really take issue with the overall basis of the first post though and the apparent attempt to make ND a liar for saying he was worth $1million. HE WAS!

MY .02.................

Casay

Edit - In re-reading I see a lot of your emphasis is on the word 'documented' and where documented and by whom. I understand that question but it does NOT mean he wasn't worth the money. So he said a wrong word..... sigh...

 

Link to Anshe's press release stating she's first in NOV 2006! Well after Neverdie's announcement.. yes.. it's clarified . (she's valuing herself pretty much on virtual assets)
http://www.anshechung.com/include/press/press_release251106.html

and if you READ ND's INTERVIEW release he clarifies it too although he doesn't mention his overall assets as she does.. and those items, skills etc combined are well over $1 million at that time: (Please provide a link to his press release)

MAY 2006 (this is from the interview link YOU provided)
"It's amazing to think that I have recouped half my $100,000 dollar investment while the Club is still under construction," says Jon 'NEVERDIE' Jacobs. "Virtual real estate prices have soared 2000% in the Entropia universe public auction in the last 12 months, so I'm very glad I got in at the beginning. Club NEVERDIE is truly a self-sustaining business model with large growth potential including worldwide branding and real estate endeavors. Based on the typical business multiple of ten, my twelve month gross profit at the end of 2006 will put me at a net worth over a million dollars! I think it's fair to say that the virtual revolution has begun."

Who valued Anshe? She and Linden labs... was it true? Dunno... it's HER statement and press release.. NO different than ND's overall!! Do I now have to go off and look through interviews of hers to see if she made some mis-statment? ND did NOT lie.... just because he didn't spell it out enough for you and say, I own a mod fap worth X and PoE armor worth X and skills worth etc.. doesn't mean he wasn't worth it....

So, who posted their press release first? ND! So.. who was first?? Well, guess ND then...... was he worth that? Hell yes.... was it 'documented' .. well his press release I guess is documentation... did MA have a press release too at that time? Those old forums are gone.... so.... seems you've went on what you thought was lying on ND's part and you only did part of your research......

Yes my .02 but to be an 'admin' without the community knowing who the F*** you are just down right pisses me off... sorry.. don't usually use such strong language.. but you speak in facts.... so be DAMN sure you're factual with EVERYTHING!!!

Hope ND rips you a new one

Casay

 

Admin = Peter = VF = ViagraFalls = NotVF = NewShoes

 

Yes, appreciate knowing but it does not excuse you calling him a liar and that he wasn't worth $1 million. He had virtual assets, no different than Anshe's virtual assets worth that much or more. He explained his revenue stream I think and was trying to state how he expected it to go and base it solely on CND profits and not value of other stuff already worth that much. Is it Hype? sure.... it is a LIE? NO! He was first... just because you don't find that on Google or because Anshe turns around many months later and makes a FALSE claim to being first... well... she's the liar right?

 

in one of the links Peter provided on the front page it says, that NEVERDIE tells the public that he still hopes to become one of the first virtual millionaires. That is in August ...

 

I think he's separated the two things out and that's whey there's confusion:
His skills, items etc.. worth a lot of peds at that time. I know my little ole avvy was worth about 12k USD then and I wasn't THAT skilled or have those kinds of items. His skills alone at that time, well he was in Warrents... over 300k skills in total probably.... that's a LOT of money at that point in time in just skills.

I think when he says hopes or wants to be he's separated out CND, income / profit from it etc to be $1 million.

So, therein is the confusion or mis-statements I think. In the later interviews he's really trying to promote CND and it's profit potential and the profit potential of EU overall to investors. I honestly think, if he'd said such things as my skills are worth XX or my virtual fap is worth XXX people would never have understood.

Was he the first? Only he can clarify that by going back in time and valueing his skills etc. Do I think there's a high probability he was? Sure.... once he was offered $1 million for CND does that then make it worth it?

Has he made a LOT of mistakes.. you bet! RT and NI suck and we all know it. He hypes and he goes on but I don't think it's done with bad intent but with to much enthusiasm maybe. But then, he's ND. No different than how "The Evangelist" was at the events. Lots of enthusiasm and excitement. That's what we want though right?

He's lost his 'virtual' millions it seems and to me that's sad for us all. He's still the only one out there promoting things to date. Yes, he's over hyped but I do not think he's lied. That's my only point here.

Thanks for the kind replies,
Casay

 

Thank you again for the question. At this point I think I am just making you angry. My appologies as this was not my intention.
No I am not calling him a liar. To do so would make me a Hypocrite as I don't have the full entire story about the PP agreement and MA's official answer. What I am saying is we can't take anthing he says as a definitive answer from the powers that be, due to three very big reasons.

1. He as already proven he can't be trusted. Simply when you said you caught him playing Island girl's ava even after the fact it was known it's not permissable. All of the other things that have been posted about him reguarding all the issues with insider knowlege, him changing the value of the ES500 in his bank.. etc.. :) lol there is alot more but I will try and make this short. Besides like you said we are bordering on beating a dead horse!! ;) Does this make him a liar... no but it does make it hard to take anything he says as sincere truth or just more mouth music! ;)

2. Neverdie has said many times that he is his avatar. This guy is either roleplaying 24/7 or he really is living in virtual reality!! lol I'm not sure whats more frightening!! What could even be worse is it is most likely both!! What I am getting at here is ND is a sensationalist. He as a big ego. He is trying to premote his planet. He has been over the top on everything he does since day one!! So really it's hard not to wonder if it is all just one big PR stunt!! Especially since the real lack of a reasponse or any action by MA and the fact that it seems he still doing all this at this very moment!!

3. The biggest one. You and I both know that second hand info is not good info at all. Without an official post by MA, we are stuck with only his word and I for one would like to hear it from the horses mouth.. ;)

Again my applolgies. I respect your oppinion and trust you are trying to do the right thing. That in itself is a big job and I for one applaud your bravery.
Oh and a side note, you don't have to answer this post. I only wish you a happy easter and better conversations over some other topic!!

Yep this is the big question of whether or not he is simply role playing or that MA just doesn't know what to do with him. I am really leaning towards this as a just one big PR stunt. It fits his line of thinking and his larger then life ways from all of his video's and everything he says!! lol

LOL yep it's a hard one to decifer. Everyone on the planet is different and we all have our points of view and theories. Personaly it's hard not to wonder what the hell is going on in his mind!! The saying that even bad press is good press has some merit. There are people who will take a look at EU just because they need to know what ND is on (Crack??!!) lol But then he is really doing his job as a PP by bringing in people, even if it is just out of morbid curiosity!! :)

 

I do need to add this though:
Do I also think that the BS that went on with employees etc after RT and NI release was un-ethical and total BS! YES! Do I think it will happen again in some way? Wouldn't surprise me one bit. Do I think MA is monitoring things? I hope so but again, wouldn't be surprised to find out not. ND is on a short rope with that whole issue, I think he knows it and knows that if ANYTHING happens again it will be his death nail.

But - and this is NOT an excuse for him..... It's the kind of shit that's been going on for years it seems by MA so.. was he was just doing what he thought was OK to get away with? Doesn't make it right to do of course. I do though think it gives a lot of insight into MA overall huh?

Casay

 

Well, in terms of your question, is something worth an amount someone was willing to pay for it? Overall, yes. Anshe did the same thing and valued it not on what she'd taken out in $$$ but value of it within SL and linden $$$. Once he was offered $1 million doesn't that make it worth it? Does he have to pull that much out of game and then declare he's the first? Well after sale of TI he still had those skills and items. He was still in Warrents for a time when I was playing in Champs League. So he still had his skills and his items at that time. I remember him chipping out a lot and selling his items sometime afterwards but I'm not sure of the exact time frame. Again, I think it was in relationship to him setting up NDS.

Instead of railing on him so much on this forum... something definitely needed at times, esp with the RT and NI and him using his avatar etc... I'd LOVE to see you all do an in-depth investigation of MA overall. I mean, why the HELL did the community have to seemingly FORCE them to enforce the EULA on ND in the first place??????? Is there employees that have their bf's or gf's that also play the game as rumored?? Who are these 'lucky' avatars that seem to log in, ath or huge hof, or item then leave????? Is this not done because people are concerned with the EULA and statements about MA? An investigation may show that there's nothing wrong here but there's been so much over the years that it should be looked into.

 

Not really. Countless examples, but not really the point.

Casay, i think the issue is not if Anshe or Mr. Jacobs was first. I think the issue is that both are lying. :)

Mr. Jacobs implied he was the first who made a million from a game / virtual world. I might be wrong but in very early interviews that was actually what he said. Later the phrasing was bit more careful.

In any case, the things you mention. Gear, skills.. He sold most before the CND purchase or even before the TI sale. But it doesn't matter anyway.

Lets just say we count all assets then still the question is: had he at least at one point one million more in assets then he deposited?

Because if not, then it is like me transfering funds to Italy, buying a pizzeria there, make some bucks and then say: Hey, i made XY (sum of marketworth of the pizzeria + earnings) in Italy, ignoring what i invested / transfered to Italy.

Another valid definition would be if he withdraw one million more then he totally deposited over time.

I doubt any of those two things happened.

 

If all the above research is true - it just proves that my gut feeling about Mr. NeverDie has been right all along.. Thanks :)