Crafters need to know

Discussion in 'Entropia Community' started by cuilwenevey, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. I have noted over the past 3 yrs whenever I have crafted with whatever loot I have or been able to purchase, that many pp,l truly have no idea or common sense as to what they really need to charge to break even after costs.

    So I thought - I would share with everyone what I have worked on over the years.
    I have shared with many friends and shown them that even after what they thought to be a good crafting run and would make a profit from whatever they created and sold - was really a loss (because the IN game MU is to low). Many crafters that go out on crafting runs and think they are doing well, when in fact many of those people are really undercutting each other in the market to sell their products.

    Just yesterday I crafted some basic screws for a soc mate for his own crafting run. Well here is what I did
    - 197 iron ingots (76.83tt) @ 107.35% (this was as the time the weekly MU I used) total spending came to 82.48peds
    - after the run I got back Basic Screws (1051) @ .04 peds each = 42.04 tt with the weekly MU at 105.93 it came to 44.53peds. then with the metal residue (1496) with tt and MU of the week its total was 15.92peds.
    - at the end all came to -19.83 without MU / -22.03 with MU a 74.19% (at TT Values) loot return (100% - would mean I broke even)

    my results is that to break even, I would have to charge for each Basic Screw 0.06 peds (but the MU of the week is 105.93% at the time making - where each screw is only worth 0.042372) this is not going to help me break even or even think of charging just enough to make a profit.

    my conclusion is that many ppl in game do not have the concept of the real value of items.

    crafting runs negPos.jpg
    In the Picture you can see an example of a few crafting runs I did.

    Crafters need to stop and think before selling off what they crafted at such a low cost.

    I am sharing with you my entire basic spread sheet that I use
    feel free to download it it is free.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. narfi

    narfi Lost

    So you had 76.83tt input (82.48 w/ mu)
    You got back 42.04tt Screws + 14.96tt Residue = 57ped back

    57/76.83 = 74.19% returns which is lower than your average will be for a longer run.

    From my playing around with crafting over the last year I have always done better when doing over 1k clicks per run and preferably 5k. When doing larger runs I get much closer to the magical 90% over a period of 3-5 runs or so.

    Everything I calculate I base off of 90% returns. Sometimes its lower, sometimes its higher, but that is the average long term so good enough for me.

    So that would change the math a little bit, but still not bring you into profit.

    76.83tt input (82.48 w/ mu)
    51.00tt Screws + 18.15tt residue = 68.15ped back before markup =~89% returns (just for this math example)
    If screws are 106% we will call them 105% to cover auction fees, and if residue is 108% we will call it 107%
    (51*1.05 = 53.55) + (18.15*1.07 = 19.42) = 72.97ped back on average with markup.

    72.97/82.48 = 88.46% returns comparing markup.

    There are two things you can do to affect this without convincing an entire games population to sell their stuff for more mu which probably wont happen :/

    1. Buy your iron cheaper, or calculate it at the price you would get if you had sold it on auction. (tt + MU) - Fees = your markup to calculate with.
    2. Since residue is worth more than screws push your slider all the way over to condition and get more residue and less screws.

    Right now I dont think screws are a smart print to click, but a month ago they were.
    Lets do this all over again with the figures from last month.
    I could buy Iron for 103% and sell residue for 112% (well call it 111% for the math) (im not sure what the price of screws was then but ill assume a little lower since iron was lower, we will call it 104%)
    And we will switch the ratios of screws to residue.

    76.83tt input (79.13 with markup)
    18.15tt Screws + 51.00tt residue = 68.15ped back before markup =~89% returns (just for this math example)

    (18.15*1.04 = 18.88) + (51*1.11 = 56.61) = 75.49ped back on average with markup.
    Even then you only got 95.39% back comparing markup, but most people are willing to loose a little bit of ped in exchange for skill gains and the chance for a good run.

    There is one more thing to take into consideration when crafting and that is the possibility to loot rare or (L) prints which can be sold for markup.
    Low level components aren't good for this, but you could use your iron to craft low level armor or weapons and then you could have a potential to get more markup than just the product+residue.

    Really if you play the numbers and buy wisely and sell wisely and select prints depending on the current market and play the slider depending on the current market I dont think crafting is any worse than hunting. It just takes a much larger ped card because in order to get the good average your looking at 5k clicks a run which even at 5pec per click (basic filters) that's 250ped for a single run.

    I treat crafting like it is gambling and only click peds I'm willing to loose for now. Then when I get my payback good run, I treat that like a win and put that towards an investment or to waste on something fun. (like hunting over my head, or clicking higher risk prints)

    Not sure if that made any sense or not, but its my rambling thoughts on crafting.

  3. this was just a basic .. i have 2 years of crafting where i have done over 100 click on items to over 4000k on such things as components or materials. but over all i have done ok so far my last year average return even with globals has been around 87.07% and this year so far the average is 75.89% in loot return in crafting ..

    the general idea i was showing ppl was just what i did yesturday in crafting the basic screws as an example.. really
    normally i would do about 500 clicks on them and the iron i normally have hunted myself for
    most items i craft is what i have saved .. or if i purchase i buy at the lowest MU i can find on the day of my crafting ( this is common sense. even if i look at the auction and want to sell )
    .. as you can see on the pic of the copy of a section of my spread sheet those MU are what was of the week and if i purchased.

    i just want ppl to see and open their eyes and really put pen to paper and stop undercutting on items in the auction.. as i have seen in the past few months
  4. besides when you craft or even go out hunting .. you go out not looking for that big HOF or ATH or even a global. and in crafting .. you should not be thinking "I may get that rare BP" you should be thinking of the here and now. as you begin the crafting and when it ends. (and if you get that Nice BP then woot, or that nice global or HOF then again woot to you ) but over all you need to keep a level head. I am not saying i did nto have some positive % loot return .. as you can see in the pic i did show one of my positive ones (in green) over 100% in loot return. but again i cant and noone should expect it to happen all the time. :)

    I want ppl to really look at how they are doing and what should they do with selling their items.. (yes you get residue back a can sell, and yes the BPs too and make some peds ) you can take the spread sheet use it and make your own notes as to what you need to do .. it is only a general idea and to help ppl get a start.

    every day as i go hunting or crafting i try and improve my spreadsheet so that i can see a more broader view and what i need to do ..
  5. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Your returns seem high to me. I have had many a crafting run where I ended up with a fraction of what I put into the machine, and I generally stick to stuff I should have a good COC on.

    It's why I stopped crafting. I simply don't have the money, time or patience to collect sufficient resources for 5k clicks.

    Anyone wanna buy some crafting skills?
  6. narfi

    narfi Lost

    yeah, i need 10-15tt of manufacture armor, you got it?
  7. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I highly doubt it. I mostly crafted low end stuff like filters and components etc. I did unlock BPC, but don't think I have any armor crafting skills of any worth. I can check tonight, but am almost convinced I'd not reach even 5 PED of skills.
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