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konsumentverket.se - File a complaint against MindArk

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by McCormick, May 20, 2018.

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  1. May 20, 2018 #1
    McCormick

    McCormick

    Hi,

    let this be the final straw in spreading the truth about the swedish company MindArk PE AB.

    This just isnt a desperate try to act as an attention whore, that wont change anything, no...

    ...way better....

    ....luckily I got a reply by swedish konsumentverket.se the other day and there are indeed other complaints about MindArk / Entropia Universe, filed from all around the world.

    Who would have thought that ? :p

    Sadly none of these players ever went public with this...hence this thread.


    But what is konsumentverket ? Its the swedish version of the "consumer protection", aka. "Verbraucherschutz" in germany.


    In short :

    If you feel MindArk is trying to scam its valuable community more then ever, if you think MindArk made so many promises over the past decade, but usually never delivered...I would love to ask you, to file a complaint against Mindark as well. I did it.

    I wont post the message I sent, as Id hope you all write it in your own words.

    CLD ? Compet ? Taming ? Deeptoken ? Neverdie tokens ? Dozens of complaints on forums since 2009 ? You choose. Why not point em to my blog or various posts...why not start a collection of posts here in this thread ?

    You can send it anonymously, if you are afraid of handing out your reallife data.
    Just create a new email if you want to be completely safe. :p

    You will usually get a reply within 24 hours.

    Hand them the adress of MindArk, as well as detailed informations about things, that konsumentverket might want to look into, to start additional investigations:

    Mindark PE AB (publ)
    Jarntorget 8
    SE 413 04 Gothenburg
    Sweden

    Telephone: +46 (0)31 607 260

    https://www.entropiauniverse.com/
    http://forum.competgame.com/
    https://deeptoken.io/


    You can contact konsumentverket via :


    english:
    https://www.konsumentverket.se/languages/english-engelska/this-is-how-you-file-a-complaint/

    german:
    https://www.konsumentverket.se/languages/deutsch-tyska/so-erstatten-sie-eine-anzeige/

    swedish:
    https://www.konsumentverket.se/


    Highest reagrds,
    McCormick
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  2. May 20, 2018 #2
    San

    San

    Yes, precisely. Whereby in Sweden it is an actual authority, or "Behörde" in German ("...-verket" translates to "das ...-werk"), while in Germany there just exist several foundations and non-profit associations usually on state level (Verbraucherzentrale XYZ e.V., Stiftung Warentest etc.) with official support or endorsement. Not sure how it works in other countries.
     
  3. May 20, 2018 #3
    San

    San

    While it's up to everyone themselves, I don't think this suggestion is very helpful as it is. I should explain why but I find it very tiring. Is it really necessary? Educate people about their rights, but do it right, please.
     
  4. May 20, 2018 #4
    McCormick

    McCormick

    What is really necessary in our short lifes ? ;p
    Money ? Fun ? Love ? Life itself ?

    I know this might feel extreme to some of you, but Im fed up how this company lied to us so many times,
    always aiming for our hard earned money.

    It is the peoples right to complain, if they feel, that something is not right.
    It is obvious something is not right here...since years. But nothing ever changes, the same threads show up again and again.

    Some people will never understand, no matter how much you "educate" them.

    If you know konsumentverket is the place to talk to, when you feel something is not right...no education is needed, really.

    I learned its close to useless, to keep posting on forums, even if there have been dozens of positive reactions.
    If the developer stays quite, always pushing the next big money scam, what else can you do ?
    Except for leaving the game. That would be too easy, wouldnt it ? ;p

    I just pointed into another direction, because so many other ways of communication have failed by now.
    Why not try it at least ? Im aware this might change nothing as well and that I could just ignore it...but this time I wont ignore it.

    Is it necessary ? Id say, yes ! :)

    Im tired like you, explaining myself again and again. This company has gone too far over the years and sometimes you cant solve such situations with education...too many addicts around, that would defend Entropia, beeing afraid of loosing all of their previous investments.

    It is your decision though.

    But I posted this for a reason.

    If someone should still think, I post here to "just bash MindArk"...please, go educate yourself further. ;)


    p.s.
    What exactly do you want to say with :
    "Educate people about their rights, but do it right, please."

    regarding my post ?
     
  5. May 20, 2018 #5
    San

    San

    It is irrelevant how it feels to me, or anyone here for that matter, or to what degree anyone agrees or sympathizes. You are now surfing a borderline and potentially setting yourself up for litigation. I posted this for a reason, too.
     
  6. May 20, 2018 #6
    McCormick

    McCormick

    Borderline ? Potentially litigation ? Say what ?! @_@

    You never used such consumer protection services, did you ?
    Konsumentverket will start an investigation if needed. Not me !

    I can provide enough material, to explain how MindArk is moking its own community, by announcing false promises and lies.
    And judging by the 1st material konsumentverket provided to me, Im not alone here.

    And usually "some more" consumers are needed to start somekind of investigation.

    Borderline, potentially litigation ?! Jesus...

    Honestly, your "You are now surfing a borderline and potentially setting yourself up for litigation." is exactly one of the reasons, uneducated people prefer to not to talk about a nuisance, because they are either afraid to loose something or become the clown of a stupid society.

    Or are you trying to say MindArk will ban my avatar now and sue me for, uhm, lets say slander ?
    Like, they did with Dan Hunter's "slander" in 2006 ?

    http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/05/mindark_im_sorr.html

    p.s.
    Its nothing personal San, but I made a final decision here and wont change my mind because of bogus statements now.
     
  7. May 20, 2018 #7
    NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    In all fairness, and I think you all know how I feel abut MindArk, but CLD, Compet and Derptoken were all choices posed to the players. MA made a salespitch, and people either went for it (or not).

    In the case of CLDs, I'm not sure MA misled people at all. What certainly seemed fishy to me was the mysterious last minute investor, but the only ones who might be able to shed some light on that matter are the auditors, who approved the yearly report. The one thing that irks me about the CLD story is that while the revenue-sharing part of the deal seems to have worked, what has yet to be implemented is the land plot system (no, not partially as it has been done now, but the way they initially said it would be).

    That Compet would fail as quite obvious from the getgo. Everyone who spent even a bit of time in EU knows MA are clueless when it comes to designing games. Everyone could see their initiative was launched way too late, and anyone who expected them to market it properly has again, not been paying attention. Compet was a risky venture, and those who were naive enough to part with their money did so on their own accord.

    Derptoken the same thing. MindArk is run by a bunch of morons, and the info about it is freely available for all to read if they perform their own due diligence. The playerbase certainly doesn't seem to have bitten (perhaps following the Compet fiasco), and again, whoever did throw money at it did so out of their own free will. Whether or not there actually was a 12 million dollar investor (or investors) remains to be seen. I didn't invest, and certainly will not be investing in the next few rounds either, creative bookkeeping or not.

    None of these cases are proper "scams" or instances where I think MA misled people. We all know by now that MindArk has a tendency to paint extremely bright futures, and never once actually delivered even a sliver of it. They get away with it because their numbers are projections, and real life simply adjusts those numbers to something realistic. This is why you check for historic results, and it's easy to spot this by the ancient numbers MA has been tossing around when it comes to Derptoken. If they were doing amazing, they would have used last years numbers, or even 2018 numbers. The Derptoken campaign saw numbers they used back in what? 2012 or before?

    Another hint is the fact that the metrics they throw around are intentionally vague and ambiguous. "Registered accounts". To someone used to work with data, that metric means nothing. It's a number that will always go up, and it says absolutely nothing about the current state of the company or game. What actual investors want to hear is MAU (Monthly Active Users), Churn (Customers leaving as a percentage of the total customer base), ARPU (Average revenue per user), etc. MindArk doesn't publish those because the numbers are so terrible that a) no serious investor would spend a nickel, and b) the existing playerbase would freak out.

    What baffles me is how MA managed to sign anyone using just the numbers they published, while hiding the metrics mentioned above. When the real numbers were revealed, perhaps PPs were already too invested to pull out (although not all).

    Where I do feel MA is misleading people is the "balancing" and changing of systems that somehow always ends up with players being shafted. Hangar owners who had to wait years for their 10k USD investments to become useful again. Tamers who are still waiting for something useful to happen with the system they invested in. Tailors who saw their investments become worthless due to MA changing the status quo. Beauticians who saw THEIR investments yanked out from under them.

    The list goes on and on, and one cannot help but feel this is an intentional strategy by MindArk. They also killed tons of markup with the introduction of craftable explosives. I'd actually mostly be interested in whether or not konsumentverket would classify Entropia as gambling or not. As much as MA claims it's skill-based, crafting still pretty much is nothing more than pulling a lever on a slot machine. Lootboxes the same.
     
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  8. May 20, 2018 #8
    San

    San

    I did obviously not get the point across. I said, opinion doesn't matter. I'm not arguing with what you bring forward. I can only suggest to consult with someone who knows more about all this. I know, I hate them guys in their suits too and I already said this. Someimes they're useful.
     
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  9. May 20, 2018 #9
    McCormick

    McCormick

    @NotAdmin
    Yes, CLD in terms of Landplot System = no real updates, but money already taken.

    You say you feel its an intentional strategy...yes, Im all yours...take the money, provide a bit, but not was what promised.

    Call it what you want.

    Misleading advertising ?
    Advance fee fraud ?
    Pyramidscheme ?
    Empty promises ?

    batman batcave.jpg


    p.s.
    Explosive Blueprints = pure gambling...thats no rocket science. But its well hidden behind "gaming".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. May 20, 2018 #10
    NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I'm more upset about the fact it solely relies on a component available from the Trade Terminal. That makes it look, feel, and smell like a deliberate attempt to drive down markup of traditional loot. After all, as a crafter, why would you bother buying any loot with markup, if you can simply buy something at guaranteed 100% whenever you need it, wherever you need it, and still get your fix just the same?

    So of course the market for all the items used prior to this BP being available (I.e. basic filters, Simple I conductors, Simple I Plastic Sptrings and what not), which earlier meant you could at least benefit a little bit as a hunter, tanked, and as a result everyone's lives got a bit much harder again.

    And then they add the new Skinning profession to further reduce returns. We're the frogs, and MA is the person slowly increasing the heat under the pot of water we're swimming in.
     
  11. May 20, 2018 #11
    McCormick

    McCormick

    Very polite of you. ;)
     
  12. May 20, 2018 #12
    VeloThruxMaster

    VeloThruxMaster

    “Something is not right here”.

    Yes.

    Taking more cash out.

    All stuff worth a few thousand peds now sold.

    Will hibernate and keep skills and watch and wait.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  13. May 21, 2018 #13
    OZtwo

    OZtwo

    I told YOU to wait 3-5 bloody months!
     
  14. May 22, 2018 #14
    mastermesh

    mastermesh

  15. May 22, 2018 #15
    McCormick

    McCormick

    I got my hands on e-posts and screenshots, that Entropians sent to konsumentverket.
    Totally legal, of course.

    While other authorities finally understood that Diamonds/Lootboxes and other crap can ruin peoples reallife,
    as they want to progress in some mini-games, by spending thousands of dollars on games (calling it entertainment), games that are only worth 50$ or less, I think the swedish gambling commission of excellence, might look at this case again...sooner then one might think... :p

    While I defended Entropias micropayment system for several years, because they kept delivering awesome content in exchange, back in the days, they now turned into those greedy bastards, like everyone else.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  16. May 22, 2018 #16
    OZtwo

    OZtwo


    The funny fact about the Swedish Gambling Authority (SGA -- sure you thought of that one) is a while back I didn't send them an email, but called them about the ammo blueprints issue. What I was told by them MANY times was that MindArk is not in the business of Gambling, but is a Skill Based game in which you can freely trade your skills.

    No Joke.

    Sorry, i can't share email -- a lot of legal shit at footer telling me what would happen more or less if I shared it.

    (note I stated I called yet got an email from a top guy)
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  17. May 22, 2018 #17
    McCormick

    McCormick

    Its called "Swedish Gambling Authority" aka. lotterieinspektionen.

    https://www.lotteriinspektionen.se/en/about-us/

    Yup, I remember a discussion about this and the mention of "because of skills its not gambling" x'D
    But there never was such a official statement.

    And as long as there is no official statement, my posted example from their site still explains what it is all about...no matter if skills are involved or not. And realizing Expl. BPs are gambling, doesnt require rocket scienece.
     
  18. May 22, 2018 #18
    OZtwo

    OZtwo

    But that what blow me away just a few years back. It wasn't MA stating this, but SGA. See I can see MA saying this, but for the SGA to send me a personal email outlining exactly why they will not be opening up the case again was just beyond words.

    BUT! Back to my point from the start: STOP THIS! I'm trying to bloody withdraw!! :sneaky:
     
  19. May 22, 2018 #19
    McCormick

    McCormick

    This wont change anything within the next 50 business days...so you have plenty of time to sell all skills and items.

    But one advice...hurry up ! x'D
     
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  20. May 22, 2018 #20
    McCormick

    McCormick

    • I recieved a case about a player from konsumentverket, that created a 2nd account and got his 1st account locked, as you are only allowed to have 1 account in Entropia. The case includes screenshots with reallife name and avatar name.

      Because of this he lost his 1st account and all of his deposited 6000$.

      So, keep in mind, only 1 account is allowed..you know ? ;D


     
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