Narfi's Life after EU: Chapter One - The Model Boat

Discussion in 'Life, the Universe and Everything' started by narfi, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. narfi

    narfi Lost

    If you haven't read the 'prequel' of my Life after EU you might want to catch up on it first.
    Narfi's Life after EU: The Prequel

    Chapter One - The Model Boat

    Most of last years free time I had normally spent playing Entropia was spent studying different options for home built boats and aircraft.
    After looking through many different designers websites and different plans and types of boats and types of construction, I found one that I liked.

    Actually I liked the entire package, the designer, the boat types, but more importantly their support and user forum. I joined the forum and witnessed the designer and sales guys all very active in answering questions daily and promoting a very good 'community' feel among their customers and current, past, and present boat builders.

    I decided on a model I liked, their Fast Skiff 19 or FS19. It is a bigger boat than needed but with a V hull and good size would be very safe on our big lake here.








    I purchased the plans, and since it was in the middle of the winter and too cold out to build, we decided to build a model. This chapter will be the building of that model.
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  2. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dec 26, 2016
    Landon's 1/10th Scale FS19 Model (thread somewhat copied from the boat building forum where originally posted) (Landon is my sons name)

    Winter project so I can make all my mistakes cheaply and learn the system before building the 1:1 scale. Hopefully build some confidence along the way. A lot of difference between reading and looking at pictures and actually seeing something take (mis-)shape by your own hands.

    Got home after work tonight and first project was Building a crystal radio Landon got for Christmas. Unfortunately the only station here is fm and the radio we built only receives am. Was still interesting that you could get static through the speaker considering it uses no batteries or power source.


    Then we cleared the table and broke out the balsa and tools and plans.
    We cut .8" strips of balsa (1/10th of the 2x8s called for in the plan) and pinned together the strong back. The cutting board has a grid on it which we used to keep it square.

    Didn't have any wood glue around and didn't want to test how noxious the epoxy we got is this soon before bed so we called it a night and cleaned up. Will glue it tomorrow and pull the pins.
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  3. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dec 27, 2016

    Borrowed some glue from work and glued the strong back together on my lunch break.
    20161227_130438.jpg Added some weight on top till tonight. Probably not necessary but the balsa us so light I wasn't sure if the corners would stay down while the glue set. It's fast stuff so probably pointless......

    Lesson learned: if the pins are glued in, twisting them slightly with pliers brakes them free and they pull out easily.

    Tonight draw out the panels and cut them.
    Then figure out how to "stitch" them 1/10th scale.......
    Just tape from the bottom?

    Did more thinking than building tonight.
    Got most of the molds drawn out and just one major mistake on "E" after drawing it the V looked too deep and didn't match the appearance in the plans. Redid my math and measured and re-measured and it was all right just looked wrong. Third time measuring I figured I had marked the bottom of the sides above the BL instead of below. Marked again and it looked right.

    Messed up the lines for station E, but caught myself in time and corrected it.

    Then I got distracted reading the plans and confusing myself.....

    1. The transom is stitched inside the side panels not butted up behind?
    2. Both transom clamps are both forward of the transom or one on each side?
    3. Are there notches in the stringers or just the molds? It looks like just the molds but not having done it yet "feels" like everything would fit nicely together if both were notched together?
    4. I read that stringers are two plus of 9mm? Somehow I had missed this before and thought they were just one sheet thick.
    5. The actual bulkheads (Not the moulds) are multi piece between stringers? Guess that would answer question #3.....
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  4. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dec 28, 2016
    After further research, I believe the stringers are notched 1"
    Shows cutting notches and fitting them together

    The plans page A314/21 titled 'How to notches"
    shows the stringers (without notches) and station marks, but off to the side not attached to anything is a diagram of a 1" notch.

    cazuza posted a pictures of the cnc kit he received and there is an image of his stringers on the 3rd page, ... 20#p365564
    It shows notches that look to be about 1"

    So another round of questions about the transom/clamping boards (almost all my questions will be regarding preparation for the 1:1 build)

    I don't see instructions on gluing them together, but in build logs see that the boards are primed with epoxy then a layer of epoxy thickened with wood flower is used to glue the layers together and all held down flat with weights on top.
    I know that when gluing large flat surfaces together it is easy to trap air and have voids (for example try putting a smartphone screen cover on without bubbles......) is there any concern with this when gluing the transom and clamping boards?
    Is there any glass layed up on the transom/clamping boards before stitching it to the bottom and sides, or is it stitched up as bare wood?

    Another odd thing I found in my plans (both electronic and printed versions)..... There are two pages from Weekend Boat 12 - WE12, both pages numbered A313/17 but one is in metric and one in standard.

    Should I compile some of the oddities i find in the plans and list them in the main FS19introduction thread?

    Glued the transom and clamping boards together.
    Glued the stringers together. (My balsa is long enough I can make them without splices)

    Marked and cut notches in the stringers before gluing them.
    Marked the stringers notches in the bulkhead molds and cut them out.

    Partially assembled jig but had a problem with the stringers. Not sure if I cut them wrong somehow or they warped when gluing but they are bowed up toward the front and have a huge gap above station B bulkhead.

    I will attempt to "retrain" the wood with a weight overnight but might have to redo the stringers tomorrow.
    20161228_214222.jpg 20161228_214250.jpg 20161228_214338.jpg

    The motorwell sides are part of the jig?

    If they are, how are they attached to the stringers? Is it permanently glued or some temporary assembly?

    Which corner of the motorwell sides is square? (It shows the forward being 22" tall and the rear 22 1/2" tall (height not face length))

    What is the purpose of having the strong back too short to support the transom while jigging?
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  5. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dec 29, 2016

    This morning the offending stringer was almost straight. Pinned it down again way past straight and have hopes it will be close enough tonight.
    Don't think I'll have any problem with this on the 1:1
    I've been finding my fingers are fatter than I thought with small measurements and cuts on this little one.

    Fuzz wrote:Am I seeing things or did you cut the angle on the back of the stringers the wrong way [​IMG]

    haha oops....
    Well that answers that question....... New stringers tonight.

    The more mistakes I make now the less ill make on the 1:1 right?


    Glued two sheets of balsa together and cut out stringers instead of gluing after cutout produced straighter peices.

    I did one more with the back angle cut wrong again and figured out why.
    I was drawing the stringers out inverted so the straight edge would be nearest me but was not inverting the angle along with it. Doh!

    Finished the proper stringers and notched them. (Messed up and made the notches 2ply thick instead of one like the molds but not too critical for this I don't think.... on the 1:1 Had I done that I could easily have shimmed the notches) 20161229_194959.jpg

    Cut out the bow mold and motorwell side panels and finished assembling the jig.

    Cut out the side and bottom panels. Could almost fit one of each on a sheet of balsa so I spliced in the missing corner from scraps to save myself 2 sheets. 20161229_230827.jpg
    Decided to use masking tape to "stitch" the panels together before laying over the jig.
    That didn't work so well as it held the panels too tight to lay nicely over the jig. So I removed most of the tape and laid it all over the jig and started "stitching" with tape on the outside. 20161229_235555.jpg 20161229_235606.jpg

    As you can see that didn't go so well either..... I tried weight on it to get it to lay down and layed over the bulkhead molds sideways....... (to much weight and pushing on them combined with having cut the notches twice as wide as they should have been.. ......

    I ended the night with it laying beside the jig and not sure what to do.....
    I think the biggest problem is it needs to be "loose" which tape doesn't allow..... I have some copper wire as suggested but fear it is too strong for as light and thin as these panels are.
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  6. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dec 30, 2016

    Played with it a little at lunch trying to coax it into shape.
    Really saw how much effect spreading the panels around stations A and B effect the infamous "bow droop"

    Cracked a couple of panels trying to force them and so took the whole thing apart to glue the cracks.


    Tried a new approach and pinned down just the bottom panels directly on the molds and spritzed hot water over the front that needs to bend more.... Hopefully tonight it will be perfect when I get home...... (hehe.... "perfect") 20161230_134608.jpg

    Everything just "fell" into place tonight. Pinned and taped it together and everything fit so much nicer. I found the main problem was I had cut a "flat" in the bottom panels around station C which when traced on the other made a symmetrical narrow area on both bottom pieces. When I had taped everything together there wasn't the huge gap needed in that area which forced everything else to fight with each other.

    Glued everything I could between the pins and tape.

    Will need to get some tape on the inside to backup the filling for those large gaps. There are some microballons I can get from work to mix with the resin... I am hoping I can sand them ok with the bare balsa...... everything feels so fragile still but I want good surfaces and corners when I start laying on the glass.
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  7. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dec 31, 2016

    I have 4oz and 3/4oz fiberglass cloth and hadn't decided which to use yet..... leaning toward the 4oz because I'm sure we will be rough on it once done..... Landon is a boys boy and rough and tumble is the daily norm.
    It will see water and it will see a 7yr old boy and it will see a 2yr old pitbull that still thinks it's a puppy. (That = 2x 75lb creatures of chaos!)

    Was surprised at how stiff everything was this morning after the glue set. I am less fearful of sanding now.

    Pulled the pins around all the seams out. Some were glued in pretty well but only tore the balsa in one tiny spot. Twisting with pliers before pulling helped a lot.

    Took it to work and mixed a tiny batch of resin. Brushed it over all the seams as lightly as possible. Then mixed microballons in till it was pretty thick and spackled it over all the seams and removed as much as possible with a scraper.

    I think I should have mixed in more balloons, it was still a little more runny than I think it should have been.

    Hopefully it fills the gaps enough on the first try but may have to put a little more in those areas will see once it's cured and sanded. 20161231_095706.jpg
    Then put it in "The Kiln" aka boiler room. It had reached a point I needed to stop poking at it.

    Landon wasn't interested in any of the epoxy work but wanted to start sanding right away on scrap prices.. ... 20161231_110619.jpg
    Here is Landon waiting for the epoxy to cure.....

    The water hasn't gotten hard yet.... I blame Gore.......

    Be too busy with celebrations to sand or progress any tonight

    Happy New Year everyone!!!!!
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  8. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 1, 2017

    Although I could see model making grow into an addiction, I am not planning more at this time.

    The 1:1 fs19 is next on the agenda.

    Then when it is finished hopefully budget will allow for the next steps planned.

    Building a small hangar/workshop.
    Buying the plans/kit for the Zenith 750STOL (I don't think the designers here will mind the link as it's not competitive with their products or designs)

    I've been an aircraft mechanic for nearly 20yrs and so I won't need to "learn" the system for this one. It is a very simple kit (relatively) with all CNC matched holes etc...
    The plan currently is to put a Mazda rotary engine in it. But time will tell what we end up powering it with.

    When done with it Landon will be about the age to start learning to fly and he will learn in his own plane that he built [​IMG]

    Sanded it down and rounded all the corners. The two gaps could have been filled a little more but I cracked one if the bottom panels (with the grain) while sanding and I was afraid of causing more damage before it gets stiff enough, so I prepared for classing the outside.
    Decided to stray from the 1:10th a bit in favor of making the model a bit tougher considering it's environment. Went with the 4oz cloth and made "tapes" closer to 1" instead of .6"
    The test run with the epoxy went well yesterday, it has nearly no odor so I brought it all back from the hangar and we are working on the dining room table again.

    Primed the entire hull with epoxy and laid the "tapes" down.
    2x on the keel, bow, and transom and 1x on the chines. I did the keep and bow as single prices but wonder if it would have laid down better as separate peices.

    I also wonder if the wide cloth would have gone on easier in pieces.

    There were air bubbles at the underfilled gaps where I expected problems, but was able to chase them out with a brush.... will see if they stay out.
    Also had issues at the bow, it's a pretty tight radius and had a pretty big bubble form on each side. I was able to work both out but think they will probably reappear as it cures.


    One step closer to a plastic boat :p
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  9. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 2, 2017

    Happy to report I woke up this morning and there were no bubbles or raised areas around the bow.
    The worst spot was a small bubble at one of the underfilled gap spots but acceptable for a model...

    It wasn't fully cured yet.... We don't keep our house at 70f and the epoxy claims 12-15hrs at 73..... I set it in front of the heater hopefully its cured by lunch or tonight when i want to "play" with it.

    I am thinking I won't do any sanding yet and get the inside glassed as well. Will make for a stiffer object for me to sand on and less awkward and fragile.

    So next step is just to trim the excess cloth hanging down.... get the structure out of the inside and fillet and tape and glass it....

    Should I trace the bulkhead on the inside of the hull before removing them? Seems that would be easier than trying to measure everything when I need to put them back in..... though I guess the notches on the stringers help with that somewhat.

    too cold to cure turned out to be a blessing in disguise......
    At lunch break it was about the 20hr mark since mixing and it still wasn't fully cured.

    I took the opportunity to cut all the edges off with scissors and remove the bulkheads/stringers.
    It was almost too hard for the scissors, so I cut it with a knife around the corners of the transom and bow, but had no problem cutting on the straight edges. (rough cut only ~1/4" beyond the wood)

    removing the bulkhead/molds wasn't as easy as I was expecting as resin had soaked through the seams and adhered, I was able to slide a knife in beside them and cut most with difficulty, only stuck the point through the side in one place :/
    will need to do some sanding in a few places where chunks of bulkheads left corners attached, hopefully it wont be too difficult...........

    Brought it back to work with me and put it in the boiler room, hopefully it will cure better now.

    Sorry didn't take any pictures, I was running late.

    After work I used an angle diegrinder with a sanding pad on it to clean out the rough stuff on the inside. (Gobs of resin drips and broken off pieces of bulkhead stuck to the inside of the hull with epoxy) the hardest was the bow mold as 75% of it had adhered to the bow and each side... I ended up just breaking it out with needlenose pliers and hand sanding down in the corner. I only got the corners roughed out as I planned on fillets covering them.


    Then I cut out the tapes and wide cloth. One large piece for the bottom and one for each side and two for the transom.... not sure why I did two I think because it gets two tapes in and out I was thinking two layers of wide as well for some reason..... won't hurt anything here as weight isn't an issue..... But it's not like I'm going to hang a heavy outboard off it either.....

    I mixed a small batch of resin and stirred glass bubbles into it until thick. (Don't tell momma I used a butter knife to mix it....)

    Then with my finger I did my best to make nice radioused fillets at all the seams.


    Mixed another batch of epoxy and primed the entire inside.
    Then laid in the tapes and then the cloth. Easy to do all wet on wet with something so small.
    I think I used way more resin than I should when building the real thing. But couldn't see an easy way to get it out the squeegee is kind of big for the inside of this little guy.
    20170102_200533.jpg 20170102_200546.jpg 20170102_200504.jpg

    (Brutus can't wait till his new chew toy is ready....)
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  10. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 3, 2017

    So for fillers/glue there are,

    Wood flour - cheap easy to use but hard to sand?
    Glass Balloons - light weight and easy to sand but brittle (round structure of the balloons provides nothing to grip?)
    Colodial silica - light and doesnt sag...... (is it like glass balloons but more jagged so it grips itself?)
    Premixed compounds - cost more but very smooth and easy to use and sand?

    Just trying to understand the different methods and advantages/disadvantages to each one for each situation.

    I know we need a mix for gluing/filling the gaps between panels when first stitching it together.
    I know we need a mix for gluing layers together such as the stringers and transom.
    I know we need a mix for fillets to radius corners to allow the glass to lay down nicely. (inside and outside corners where there are gaps?)
    I know we need a mix for fairing the entire surface to make it nice and smooth and pretty before painting.......

    What is ideal for each of those situations?

    Had only been 11hrs or so since mixing when I woke up this morning so the inside was even less cured than the outside was yesterday morning.
    I trimmed the excess cloth off with scissors while the resin is still green, it cuts really nicely at that stage. Then brought it to work and put it in the boiler room, might leave it there till tomorrow.... will see how much patience I have tonight and how sticky it still feels....

    A clean workplace is nice for doing tedious work.

    Cut the bulkhead down and glued the motorwell sides to the stringers. Then tacked stringers and bulkheads down with ca glue.

    I decided my fingers weren't small enough to tape the 1/10th scale stringers and bulkheads down. I sealed them with epoxy and mixed another thick putty mix to fillet them in. I discovered that the epoxy I had already put on worked as a lubricant and made the fillets harder to do than on the dry balsa I had done before on the keep and chines.

    It turned into a big mess but eventually got some semblance of fillets in.

    That mess wasn't the worst part of the evening.......
    I figured out why the epoxy was taking so long to cure....
    I had it in my head that it was 3:2 mixing ratio but I double checked the label when I started mixing tonight and it is supposed to be 3:1

    So is the entire thing ruined?
    It is somewhat cured, I can rap on it with my knuckle and it sounds hard, but it is slightly tacky to touch, feels almost like a thin film on the outside of it even though I have no problems handling it.

    Could elevated heat help? Like baking it in the oven at 200f for an hour or two? Have to admit feeling pretty frustrated with myself right now but atleast it's a good lesson for now and hopefully I'll read and double check better on the full scale when I start it.

    This is the epoxy I have been using. A friend picked it up for me in Anchorage a few weeks ago. 20170103_201239.jpg

    Well I looked up on their website and they said while it will cure at room temperature you can heat it to 200f (lucky guess by me) for one hour.

    I think I will put in the oven for an hour then turn the oven off and go to bed with it still inside.... doesn't seem like it could hurt anything and might help.
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  11. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 4, 2017

    Good news and ugly news!!!

    Good news is when I woke up this morning the epoxy has cured hard and sandable.

    The ugly news is the cyanoacrylite glue I've been using to tack everything together with didn't hold up to the heat. It turned a nasty yellow color and bled out of everywhere. Places where it bled to the surface baked it crusty.

    I don't think it's a big deal for this model as structure isn't super critical and I'll be sanding and painting anyways.

    Note: just realized I shouldn't have cut the last bulkhead that is part of the motorwell down...... oops.

    Started laying the cleats for the floor in.

    Do the stringers have cleats added as well? I need to figure that out next I guess.... not sure since they are already two ply thick.

    Finished gluing in the cleats for the floor. (Didn't put any on the stringers though...)
    Then cutout the floor panels.

    Brutus guarded me from the two demon dogs in the floor the entire time, they just wouldn't back off......

    Coated the bare cleats and bottom of the floor panels then tried a Ziploc with its corner cutout for applying thickened epoxy "glue" to the tops of everything.

    Then filleted around the edges and spread epoxy over the floor followed by a layer of cloth. I didn't do any "tapeing" this time since the weight of cloth is so oversized already.

    I was going to let the cloth just hang over the front edge and trim it while green, but decided last minute to fold it down over the bulkhead. It wasn't a perfect plan as it was to sharp and really not prepared for it, but it should be covered and not visible once done.
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  12. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 5, 2017

    Rough sanded the excess cloth off and all the bad lumps on the outside.
    Spent a little time trying to trim the excess around the transom where I knew I was going to have issues. Far from pretty but better than I feared. Hopefully I can figure out a way to make it look "ok" eventually in that area.


    Landon "forgot" to bring his homework home from school but when I told him he could sand on the boat if he got it done he went back to school and was almost finished by the time I got home.


    Is there some sort of online resource for standard demintions for common furniture for boats?
    Bench heights and depths
    Seat heights depths and widths
    Same for consoles etc....????
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  13. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 8, 2017

    Fun picture.... everyone showed up for the high school basketball game.


    Landon is really getting into the "what if" of brainstorming layouts. Some of his ideas are even crazier than mine :p

    He had the idea of taping cubes so we went with it.
    Got the first test layout mostly done....
    My guess is you guys will tell me it's too heavy to be realistic (I haven't run any numbers)

    The seat cubes are 18" the benches are 18" high and 12" deep.
    The "coffins" are 2ft+ tall and 2ft wide on the floor (wider up higher) and roughly 6.5ft long.

    The "missions" are all fresh water. Mostly quick day trips around the lake for picknicks or 1-3 night camping trips. Would like to be able to sleep without having to pitch a tent but everything else (fire, eating, hanging out, etc) would be on the beach.

    This would let two people sleep up front and one in each coffin.
    I am sure as he gets older it will need to carry a moose and some fish as well.

    What suggestions would you guys have for a good setup?

    I have to admit I don't have a lot of experience with different types of boats.... 18' lunds and smaller are all I've ever used or really been around.

    I was thinking steps on the left side 1/2 cut into the front and 1/2 behind with the windshield there able to swing forward out of the way. This shouldn't be too big to just jump on/off the front and pull it forward on shore should it?

    Excuse my poor drawing buy I think it shows what I mean.

    Swim platforms are on the back right? I've only ever gone straight onto the beach and then pushed straight back off when leaving. Anything on the back wouldn't seem much help for that but then again I'm pretty clueless :p

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  14. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 10, 2017

    Havent had time to play with the model much this week but have been thinking some....
    There is an aluminum weld boat on the lake here that has a landing craft drop down steps on the bow that look really nice.
    Is that possible on a boat like the fs19?

    I really like the idea of staying light. (as in not going with a bigger C19 etc...)
    But at the same time I am really stuck on wanting to be able to camp somewhat protected on it. (still sleeping only)

    Different random ideas going through my head......
    How do you calculate weight of different finished panels for furniture and decks? (weight of core + weight of glass + weight of epoxy? is that all there is to it?)

    For example the finished hull weight as designed is 625lbs. Then add and fuel, people and gear.
    Subtract that from designed weight limit and I should have my allotment for furniture, correct?

    Suppose I use foam or nidacore for the sole, then I get a 'bonus' weight left over for more furnature?

    One idea I had was a 'pop up' for the front deck. A large hatch that folded up and could have canvas snapped to it to give more headroom underneath while 'camping' and easily just closed back down when under way?

    I am confused what the 'max' designed weight is.... some places i see 2500 and some 3000 in the fs19 development thread, The study guide doesnt say, while the plans say, "The standard lamination schedule is for a boat built exactly to plans with max. HP 115 and
    maximum loads of 2,500 lbs.
    For larger engines and heavier loads, double the bottom fiberglass: 2 layers each side."

    Of course then you begin entering the 'design spiral' that he talks about, where one change necessitates the next etc. etc....

    Another thought I had was with a raised front deck that you plan to walk on, what structure is needed to support it? under the floor you have the 36" bulkheads, I am assuming something similar?
  15. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 19, 2017

    Ok. I'm an idiot.....

    Had to get up early to check generators this morning and had an hour before work so I dug the model out and a steel rule to take measurements......

    I built the hull fine to scale as the plans are in inches I just divided inches by 10.
    However when I started laying in the cardboard template layout ideas my brain skipped a cog and started thinking 1/10 of a foot was 1 inch. Obviously an inch is 1/12 of a foot...... oops...

    No harm done. It was just cardboard and tape. But I feel about as stupid as mixing the 3:1 epoxy at 3:2 and not knowing why it wouldn't cure......

    Amazing how the brain works, once you are convinced of something you never question it again and thus begins a series of mistakes you should be doubting and checking but arent.

    I really like the clean computer drawings the guy is doing for fs17 layout ideas. I might have to learn how to do that.....

    Calculations I did yesterday based on my bad math ended up with a total weight of 1500lbs with this layout in foam with foam sole. And 1650 in plywood and plywood sole.

    That's including 365lb motor and 40gal of fuel, 20lb tank (Probably high estimate??) a 100lb battery and cables and 50lbs of electronics etc... in the console.

    My guess is the foam estimate is a bit low and plywood is a bit high so really you were all right that the difference is fairly small. However I was also correct that if I want that much stuff and come in around 1500lbs allowing for 1000lbs of people + gear I would need to use foam or some other means of lightning the project.

    For this example comparing 1500 and 1650 is fairly close but the difference between 1000 and 850 usable is significant.

    Will work more on figures using better math this time....
  16. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 20, 2017

    OD18 displaces 1630 at DWL.
    1750+1k is 2750 or 1120 more lbs.
    OD18 PPI is 322 so just under four inches above the DWL when you were loaded like that?

    That gives me a lot more confidence as most of the time (If my calculations are right) I'll be lighter than the DWL displacement weight of 2500.

    I think with careful work I could keep the fueled and equipped total under 1650ish even with a closed bow and double console + rear bench. I'll have to do more math when I'm more awake to verify though:p

    That gives me 850lbs for day to day running around while still staying under 2500 self draining weight and no problem with 1000-1500 for group camping trips.
  17. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jan 22, 2017

    Wife likes the look of this layout which goes a long ways towards final decisions.....

    Front seats are 18" squares and back bench is 16x16 deep and tall.
    30 to 32" under the front should be plenty for sleeping in.

    Still need to figure out steps over and through...... I want it to be easy enough to get in and out rather I'm by myself or with a group.

    20170122_172050.jpg SmartSelectImage_2017-01-22-17-47-46.png
  18. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Feb 19, 2017

    Got a message from Fuzz this morning asking about progress....

    Haven't had much time lately but its still on my mind.

    View out the window listening to the sermon this morning.


    Been thinking about needs and wants and second guessing myself on boat choices some more.

    I have a lot of good memories in my younger years running around in 14-18ft skiffs on the lake. Going downlake with a buddy 30 miles to another village and playing basketball there then wind picking up and getting stuck till morning and waking up early trying to get back to work on time. Etc .....

    Was talking to fuzz and he asked me "do you really need more than one boat?"

    For Landon over the next 15years I'm sure that the smallest engine possible will get him the most hours on the lake. Fuel is money and I'm more likely to be filling a small tank for him to play than a big one.

    However a bigger boat for weekend trips is the only way to get my wife interested.....

    I see budgeting as a two part problem.
    1. Cost of time and money now.
    2. Cost of time and money over time.

    One thought was to build the fs19 bare bones to start with and add more up top as a later project after using it a couple years.

    One thought was build an open deck fs17 first which would be a faster cheaper build with a cheaper motor and build something bigger in a few years with a bigger budget. Something with a cabin and toilet.... wife mentioned a few days ago (again) that she's not going camping with us unless there is a toilet.

    One thought is to compromise with something like the c17 which looks about as small as you can go with a tiny cabin on the front.

    Or I could just keep with my current train of thought with putting something as light and simple on the fs19 for what still seems to be my favorite compromise.
  19. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Feb 20, 2017

    So...... pros and cons between garvy 13 and fs14? They seem to have a similar BOM.

    Thinking about a young boy on a big lake often alone or with a couple friends. Again always on beaches, gravel and boulders.....

    Hehe I just did a search on the forum here for "gv13 vs fs14" and the fairly unanimous answer seems to be fs17.......

    I wonder if I'm the most indecisive person to register here?

    One big advantage I see to building a small boat first (which I think will be well used) is that hopefully within a few years I can budget a hangar/workshop. I think I would be alot more ok building a smaller "quicker project" outside and then later build a multi-year project inside...... not sure how big a deal that is but its something I worry about.

    Summer is my buissest time for work and while I do have 23hrs of sun I also have fewer hours awake away from work........ And winter outside isn't possible. ......

    Fuzz wrote: And you know with a boy this is going to happen [​IMG]

    But who will do it more? Him or his dad?........

    every time i get on our Honda i feel 16 again..... kids caught me spinning doughnuts in front of the school a couple weeks ago, was dark out so I didnt think anyone was around but guess they were getting out of basketball practice....
  20. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Feb 20, 2017

    Landon: "Dad?"
    Me: "Yes?"

    L: can we name the boat?
    Me: sure. What would you like to call it?

    Him: silently digs out the tape and scissors and gets to work.....


    DLA are the each of our first initials.
    I'm not sure how naming conventions work or if he will stick with the idea but it doesn't seem too bad an idea. The purpose is family bonding after all [​IMG]
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