PCF: What am I missing?

Discussion in 'Entropia Community' started by JohnCapital, Dec 8, 2014.

  1. OK, I'll admit this is coming from a quote from McCormick, and this question is towards him, however, it's also a broad enough question that I need others to answer as best they can so I can better understand.
    You see the problem I have is that for over 3 years, the entire forum staff was basically:
    • Me (John Capital)
    • me
    • and me
    Jimmy B? Never there
    Safara? Never there
    Rayne Jade? Disappeared (I've even tried to find him IRL to make sure he was still alive)
    Oh and 711? Have you ever heard of absentee management?

    I'm not kidding. Soon after I became a mod, 711 became hard to get a hold of. Jimmy was never there and when he did show, did no modding. Safara was recruited to help, but quickly got too busy IRL and he too stopped modding. Even though those guys are technically mods, they don't mod. They aren't even around.

    So for years, I was the one and only mod handling EF. I dealt with MA selling Calypso to FPC/SEE and the forum getting broken into two forums (And modding both) I dealt with Hanne also being absentee for months before FPC/SEE left and the forum "reverting back but not really". 711 was there temporarily but quickly left again. And I was again the one and only mod running both EF & PCF.

    Each and every single reported post and mod issue for years? I handled it personally.

    How alone was I? I didn't know 711 moved to Sweden until 2 years after it occurred.

    I finally got 711 to try to hire more help. A few were asked and only Serica agreed to do it. And after a year of me training her, I finally left.

    So forgive me, but all this complaining about how PCF was run? Well yeah, I take it personally. I modded things as best I could. And seeing descriptions like scheming and scamming being tossed about in describing the moderating? Well that can only be talking about me since I was the only mod. And I can tell you right now that scheming and scamming are things that I have never done in my life.

    So if you would please, explain to me what was so terrible about my modding those years that you throw words like that around. Was there stuff going on while I was there that I didn't know about? Did i give you the impression that I favored one group over another? Was 711 selling serin gas and baby porn out of the trunk of his forum while I was there? (Yes, I know about his adult porn businesses, etc. but those aren't connected to PCF so don't bother.)

    I look forward to learning what it was I did so wrong over those years that pissed you all off so much.
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    I think you should not take criticism of PCF personally. Not at all. Rather the other way round, since people who criticize PCF often explicitly exclude you personally from their complaints, some actually praise you.

    What you describe above are definitely issues of PCF, and I personally see many more.

    On EP the policy is to have guidelines given by the community, to regulate the interaction within the community, and moderation should be done by mods chosen by the community. And I would definitely nominate you to become a moderator on EntropiaPlanets. ;)
    • Like Like x 1
  3. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    To be honest I do not go to PCF to often and when I do it is usually to read posts like Akbar made when I hear about it.

    From what I have seen during my visits I have no complaints about you at all, the problem I have with PCF is the way it is run. Starting with the sale to MindArk, the return to 711, the rules they have (no criticism about the people running it or the rules they have, do I hear North Korea?).

    The moderators can not do much about those rules and just have to enforce them, there are just multiple way to do that I believe. You doing it the right way and the current mod doing it the wrong way. The people visiting the forum are not small children (like on WoF forums etc.) and can be reasoned with, most of them anyway. So just removing a post or even worse a thread is not done if you ask me.

    I do understand that the issue with just 1 moderator is a big issue, but then again if you don't have all those rules you don't really need many. I wonder what will happen if the current mod decides to leave now too?

    So again, nothing against you, but a lot against PCF and Jason.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Nor Alien

    Nor Alien Wisker Fish

    Ty for posting this JC. I'm now getting a better idea of the situation, from you, Tass, and Razor.

    Most of my posts are off topic to say the least. One example of modding from the current mod that seems, to me at least, personal, is where Akbars post was deleted due to being off topic yet mine right below it was left alone. From what I remember, mine was on topic as much as the Death Star is a moon! :whistling: Well maybe not that bad, but seems to me, more personally motivated then just simple modding. A bad day? Maybe?

    I've only been a mod on one fan forum, and that was along time ago, but I remember it sucked donkey balls. So I have a lot of respect for your modding skills JC as I do with this forums mods. Knowing more about your "adventures" with PCF, it seems more like hell then a trip to the sadistic dentist. Btw that means hell is a lot worse then that fucking dentist! "Oh the numbing effect should take place shortly so let's start grinding now!!!" Fuc.....!!,!! But I digress.
  5. I'm sorry, but I don't recall reading any "PCF sucks, but JC was fine" posts.

    Link(s) please?
  6. I can't give you any links but is true. Most everyone did support you for the great work you did.
  7. JC, you did a pretty great job over there. Folks are just pissed that Serica is a bit more of a "rules lawyer" than you ever were.

    When overmoderation happens it pisses people off. Yeah, yeah, forums are 'owned' and not a place for true 'free speech' and all of that...

    When you temp banned me way back when it lit the fire in me to start doing more with my blogs talking about the bad side of MA, etc... why - because overmoderation pisses people off, and just makes folks want to rant even more, just in ways that they can instead of in ways that will keep them getting hit by more damned overmoderation...

    Nowadays I'm lukewarm on the blogs since I don't have the time to mess with it, and am not as pissed off at MA as I used to be since it's just business as normal when they let us as a community down. It helps that I did a major withdraw from the game and probably won't ever deposit back to that level again... Others that are pissy might not have done that yet and are still stuck with major in game investments, so have some angst.

    As far as what McC is talking about with scamming and scheming, it's all there in the post... and in what he's posted about here over time. I'm sure you are aware of the cybersquatting stuff he's talking about, but if not, go check out the wiki entry...

    P.S. I still ROFL when I read that rant that got you banned from over there when you were the solo mod more or less as you say...
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Fair enough, M-Mesh. Not apologizing for the temp-ban. Just saying thanks for the fair and honest reply.

    However, my point was simple. I get that some folks don't like 711. I agree with some issues about him, disagree with others. That's fine.

    But complaining about 711 and then in the exact same breath accuse the mods (in this case, me for a few years) of scheming and scamming is crap. That would be like me being mad at Knuckles and pissing on Slither as if they're the same person.

    Got issues with 711? Fine, but don't rant over me, Jimmy B, Safara, MS9, Serica or anyone else in the same breath. Keep your issues directed at the real targets.

    Case in point, I was hoping for a reply from McCormick, since as I said his comments were the final straw for me, but fact is, I've seen a few folks lump the PCF mods in with their dislike of 711, and it's just plain not cool.

    BTW M-Mesh, I've visited your blog from time to time, for info. You're a pretty good archivist, but I wish you occasionally put that effort in something more happy. :jump:
  9. narfi

    narfi Lost

    You have some good points here jc. Another way of looking at it perhaps for you.

    I would not dislike the micjack family, chances or their crew nearly as much if they hadn't knowingly been in bed with ernestas.

    Edit from phone so short answers.
    I do see my own hypocrisy in this when I continue to support a game that has been so blatantly dishonest itself. So I certainly understand there are shades of Grey we all see differently.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  10. I agree, and that's part of the reason why I'm not blogging as much these days... also part of the reason I'm trying (sometimes more successfully than others) to cut back on time spent in forums. Blogs originated at some very dark times irl, and virtual life made it worse since all of that real life stuff started happening around the same time vu 10 screwed the game up for everyone.... Luckily (hopefully) those dark days are in the past for the most part.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  11. Hi, talking about other forums is not... ;)

    He travelled with MA visiting conventions, I met him personally. There you could have talked to him.
    Also he had other business to do, that some people will always connect to PCF anyway.

    Communication ftw, you should have left, while you could.

    I wonder why only a few...why only Serica agreed etc.... ;p

    Background infos also play a big part in my decision to leave PCF. Not just moderation thats tied to fucked up rules
    and moderators that MUST apply to such rules.
    Forgive me the question, but if a guilty-pr0ndewde-scammer would run a forum...would you like to be a moderator in it ?

    MA did and still does business with other shady characters. Better not to post such stuff on PCF...so the majority will never know.

    Not an accusation, but you choosed to stay on the dark side...having many followers anyway, that simply ignored or didnt care for facts that others didnt like (anymore).

    May god forgive you if all the moderation work made you blind for background infos and hard facts in the 1st place.

    May the "complaining idiots" forgive you as well :

    I have learned my lesson..still Im here. Like you. Like Akbar.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
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    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    I have no links, impossible to search just for "JC". I think I can remember Narfi saying it, MS9 might have made a similar comment, just above are several posts confirming the impression in general.

    Really, don't take it personal, most people are able to distinguish between a person and the organization they might present.

    There are so many issues attached to PCF:
    * rules and censorship any totalitarian regime would be proud of
    * purely commercial orientation, claiming to "own" all user-generated content
    * owner is a scammer, liar and notorious rule breaker
    * favoritism and abuse of power
    * suppression of community projects
    * absolutely zero active development
    * absolutely no editorial content
    * ...

    So why not simply abandoning it and joining EntropiaPlanets, a truely community-orientated, actively developed, modern forum with content available under a free license, where rules are made by the community for the community and moderated by community appointed moderators?
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I dislike PCF, yet never had any issues with you, John. Not as a person, nor as a mod. I honestly cannot recall any instance where I simply lumped you in with PCF criticismI might have had.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I didn't know Neomaven ran porn sites... but then again why would I? Sure no one was allowed to talk about that on EF/PCF. Probably banned along with other contraband such as talking about other games.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. Nor Alien

    Nor Alien Wisker Fish

  16. What's wrong with porn?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Thank you for replying, McCormick. I would have been disappointed in you if you hadn't. You always stuck up for what you believe in. We may disagree on some things, but maybe not as much as you think. However, skipping that, I'll reply to some things you mentioned.

    You make it sound like I wanted to leave. Was never the case. I like that forum. It's not perfect, but its imperfections aren't bad enough to push me away.
    Implying what? That folks recruited for moderating on any forum always jump at the chance? Hell no they don't. Folks know what a Pain In The Ass being a mod is. Like many said: hard work, taking shit from people (wonder who ;) )and oh yeah. Basically No pay. (Disclaimer: the mods were once given a total of 2k peds in prizes as a "thank you". Feel free to figure out my hourly income off that.)
    It's quite common for folks asked to be a mod to refuse, regardless of the forum.
    Hint: I don't agree with all the rules either. Not sure anyone does.

    I'm also guessing you don't want a place that has zero rules. Recall EntropiaReality? Nice idea, but that place imploded on itself. (To be fair, it was really made originally just to spread "dark info" about certain others, but hey, whatever. It started growing beyond that, but the lack of rules caused it to die.)

    So that means that regarding forum rules, we simply differ on which ones are good or not. I'd guess if you & I went through those PCF rules 1 atta time, we'd find we probably agree about which ones were good or not quite a bit.

    IIRC, Lykke & NewShoes (Damn you dude, why'd you toss your old name away. It was way cooler) started this place off with much less rules. But after a few situations occurred, some new regulations were needed. I still like that it's less regulated than PCF, but as I said elsewhere, I like different places being, well, different.

    TL;DR Sorry, that part came out WAY longer than I thought at first. Basically, I agree that we have different comfort levels regarding forum rules.

    I don't mind the question at all. I'm more relaxed about porn than you are, obviously. True, as a website designer, I've been offered jobs to work on porn sites here in Vegas, and turned them down, but that's personal choice. I don't mind others working on them., It's just not a job I want.

    And you never bothered to ask why. :wink:

    That was a once in a lifetime post, for better or for worse.
    Question: Do you think it's... No nevermind, that's a rude question. I'll skip it.

    In the end McCormick, here's the bottom line:

    I've always appreciated your contributions to this Community. And not just the vids, either. I'm sorry that the folks running EU and the owner of EF/PCF let you down so bad on a personal level.

    However, please don't lump folks together when assigning your blame. That's just one step away from those evil "ism"s too many fall for. You know, racism, religionism, pcfism, etc. You got a beef with the owners of EU, fine. Blame them for what they do wrong. (I do) Same with 71NeoJixen or whatever you call him. But his issues are not my issues.

    I worked hard for years to run EF/PCF basically on my own and keep it as decent as I could. Obviously I failed on a big level because so many of you left on my watch. You, MS9, Lykke, etc. And I'm bummed about that, I truly am. But I don't take it to personally, because I know (hope) you all left for reasons beyond my control. I'm also happy that so many of you stayed in the community and the game, even if we don't get to play together as often.

    I'm here to play a game, meet people, discuss things and have a good time. (That reminds me, NewShoes, did you see those Atlas Shrugged movies?) While I hate certain things MA has done, and don't always agree with 711, they haven't done anything bad enough yet that has stopped me from having fun ingame and on the forums. (all the forums, even though my reduced RL time disallows me real time to be on too many of them) Maybe that's our biggest difference. You put so much heart into some expectation that the reality soured you bad. I'm really sorry that happened. I'm still able to have fun, but when I'm not, I'm gone. It's a game. Albeit a real good one that had even greater potential.

    Damnit, I'm not trying to make it sound like i want you back at PCF. This Community is fractured (along planet lines, society lines, personality lines, etc.) and that's just the truth. I respect your choices, I do. I just refuse to accept blame for things I didn't do. Throw at me that which I truly did wrong personally, that's fine.

    Happy hoffing.
  18. No need to put the pr0n in the foreground assuming Im prude, ignoring the hard fact with whom MindArk is doing business with here. Which is the only thing that I wanted to express.
    I think you know the results when googling for Entropia...so do others. MA stopped caring long ago. They never did any hardcore advertisements anyway. They dont want 1 mio concurrent users...because they cant handle 1 mio concurrent users. Whats left ? Only publicity stunts now and then, about big $, which lured in some more rich fooks and some more people that believed that they can make a living in this casino.

    Sure, buy 10.000 CLDs instead and decide in politics and land management of... lol, sorry.
    Look whats left after the SEE incident. The banks, uhm,pawnshops...etc etc etc feel free to check my blog.

    Discussing such things on PCF ? Strictly forbidden.
    So, I did not leave PCF just because of you. Noone did, except you banned him/her. ;)

    Its not just because of a forum, some blockheads or the all so often fatal decisions of a game developer, regarding an online world, that it is hard to escape from. You have to dig deeper then this, after more then 10 years. =)

    Project Entropia was my very 1st MMO. I joined because I was told its awesome, free and you can put money in and take money out. The one who told me was right. Totally immersive, alienated world. A world you want to get lost in. Very small mature community. Just wow !

    After 10 years it changed so much, that I really started to dislike it. Anyway, its hard to quit PE and cashing out usually just turns out as another investment. Some remnants remind you of what would have been possible. MA did not know what they had in their hands. (and yes, I do know their original plan of becoming THE 3d internet-ebay-sum-ting-wong-e-commerce-thing in 1999)

    Yes, I tried other MMOs, tried to escape Entropia, but skilling up and exploring an alien world was never again as immersive as Entropia was in 2004. Yet alone thinking of the old sky textures makes me shiver again.
    The MMO "Tabula Rasa" was a rare exception here...also, just wow(!)..but it got shut down by NCSoft after only 1 year of beeing online (beta excluded, which I also took part in). Tabula Rasa was in the works since 2001 and I would have stayed there, abandoning my Entropia avatar.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  19. So you trained Serika? Did you make her such a <abusive word removed by moderation> or did that happen after you left? I am currently banned from PCF for advertising a link to www.entropiauniverse.com because she is so powermad.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2015
  20. lol ?

    Dont go to PCF.
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