What would EU2 be like?

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by Wistrel, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    So there have been a lot of previous discussions of features or ways to improve Entropia as it stands and I think this is because generally the core platform works so probably not much of a need to start from scratch. Additionally we sort of had a reboot with Cryengine 2 anyhow.

    This question is inspired by this talk of an SL2. So the poser is, what core aspected of Entropia would you change in a new version? That is, if you could wipe the slate clean and start over forgetting everything that previously existed, what would you do?

    Kicking off...

    Performance wise, there may be a bit of an improvement for using ce3. I'd want to see all areas redone in the same quality level as the likes of Thule or Corinth area for example.

    I think most of the changes that would make EU2 different would relate to the economy chain around the neck of the current game. I'd want to see a set up where we don't have ludicously expensive and rare items with a more straight line cost/turn over with gradual price hikes rather than the very high ones we get at the high level. Classic example being resurrection chips. Sure, its a fun feature to have in game but the point of programming it in the first place has been massively disproportionate to the amount of people who get to use it. Sure, its cool to have a rare items but the cost should be in the hundreds of pounds not thousands. The numbers are just stupid compared to the economy of cheap to play games we have these days. Why spend thousands on a gun or armour in Entropia when you could buy 1000 pounds worth of other more fun games? Or a car... >_<

    Another major change I guess would be good would be some way of tailoring the vehicle weapons to be used with mobs in a balanced way. It is a bit of a shame they are only pvp. I know why of course but yeh, an EU2/ideal world would be one where you can use that cannon on mobs and it NOT break the game/economics. (not sure how though). This particularly applies to space. I want to hunt mobs in space but I don't want to be firing a gun that costs £1 for 20 shots at the most basic level.

    I'd like to see more interactive scenery too. The tree felling of Crysis was a lot of fun. I know mass defoliation could become an issue but I like the idea of a world where stuff "grows back" maybe after a time out period of no one being in an area. It's a big universe... it might be possible as lots of areas lay dormant most of the time.

    Crafting... the big one. My EU2 would have a far more interactive/fun way of crafting that wasn't simply a slot machine. Essentially a crafting mechanic that was as interactive as hunting where you didn't have to sit there repetitively crafting some boring thing that no one even wants (eg basic filters or jesters) - crafting should be about lovingly creating something not about volume,
    Not sure how of course, but certainly the current EU system is anchored to it's past and can never change***.

    Weather and mobs that hit back is something my EU2 would have. I want to see wind that is hard to walk against and comes in gusts that knock you down or rain that effects visibility. In particular when a mob hits me it would be good to be sent flying and maybe see the injury effect my avatars manoeuvrability for a time. This of course couldn't happen in EU1 cause all the hunters would say it was costing them too much in missed hits. Essentially it would be nice if the model for cost to kill a mob wasn't just about HP and DPS. Some aspect of "but this mob is hard to kill cause it keeps sending you flying across the room" would be cool. For example it might be a mob in reality only "costs" 1 ped to kill assuming every hit count and an ava never took damage but average loot was 2ped. An experienced well preped and clever player can take it down in say 1.2ped's of expense, a newbie with no idea can spend 5ped easy by messing up. Would be cool to be reading forum posts entitled "the best way to kill a mollisk - my strategy" on a forum.

    Finally clothes. Clothes in Entropia have kinda always been a bit lame/out of a 70's scifi show. These days they are way better but we have a problem that some are way too expensive for what benefit/enjoyment they bring to a player's experience of the game - certainly compared to other games. Additionally increasingly we have an issue now that new clothes come out that are way better than old clothes (take the Turrelion Coat vs Master Coat for example - ok there are important differences but you take the point, Tiarak leather vs black paint is another good example). The heirarchy of old clothes is stiffling to the addition of new clothes that could be a whole load cooler than what we currently have in game. A classic example is if you image search the word "tops" and look at the sheer variety of clothes that could exist. So EU2 would have much more variety of clothes and a more proportional scale for the cost of making the "cooler" clothes that is in line with what a normal person would perceive them to be worth.

    OK muse over, signing off
    Wistrel
     
  2. dalewj

    dalewj StoryTeller/Nerd/Gamer

    rare should be rare, not normal..... then it aint...well rare. but this is the cost of PE before EU and you can't get rid of it.
    why not make it so people can control and plant trees .. takes 6 months for a tree to grow... .if someone cuts them down the pay a price to the planter. or maybe on planters land only the planter can cut it and therefore have a business.
    OMG OMG OMG. This is one of the reasons I left crafting. it went from a slot machine you at least had to setup and pull to a slot machine that you can phone in your pulls.... geeeeez Afterworld is great at this and one of the reason I love it. purely hard crafting... I actually made a video of myself in AW crafting.
    just move it along 25 mins or so if u want to see crafting. all games should be this good at it.
    I agree 100% mobs need to have to be more interesting then they are now. anything to make them different...
     
  3. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    I for one would like to see that things in game need some real life skills.
    Like a creature actually having an AI and moving around, or running away when it is scared.
    Crafting would actually mean you are putting things together instead of just pushing a button and wait, figuring out what happens when you put together 2 types of ore, with the chance it fails or blows up or something., so basically no blueprints, just trial and error.
    Mining, where you have to use sonar (or something like that) to find the rich ore veins and calculate the size of bomb needed to reach that vein with a specific finder.
    More customizability on all stuff (they are doing that these days with the addons for weapons), but I would like different scopes (long range, medium range, plain sights), different types of barrels and muzzles etc.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Voxel environment with creation centre to design your own stuff, enough said



    :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    Probably most people would agree that RCE is the distinctive feature of EU. Imo RCE as a concept bears huge potential with a multitude of options that MindArk almost completely fails to make use of. If you take a closer look in the end almost all revenue generating activities come down to plain simple gambling. As innovative as the RCE model might have been 15 years ago, EU was never driven by innovative gameplay, it was and is still mainly driven by the thrill of gambling. And that's what I want to have changed in EU2.

    Cost-to-play is an issue related to RCE and the casino model. Imo noone should need to pay more than 50/months in fees/decay/ammo/etc (exclusive costs for "vanity items" and such) no matter how "hardcore" they play.

    It's a multiplayer game but imo that's an area in which EU is unfortunately really underdeveloped, there should be way more options for co-op PvE & PVP, from role/class based team play to society management.

    In general the development needs to be faster. Since EU2 is supposed to never end each major system needs an overhaul within the lifecycle of a regular standard MMO, so actually every 3-5 years. Also considering completeness of features, not announcing something and 3 years later implementing phase 1 half-baked, postpone phase 2 due to other priorities again and again, disable the feature due to game engine change, announce re-implementation for end of the year, postponing it for 4 years, then releasing stage 1 of the re-implementation, again half-baked and with the final stage still years to go. I want EU2 to be a complete game, not a patchwork of crudely interconnected features implemented under different varying directives over a timespan of 15 years...

    The most performed activity in EU is probably "hunting" which in fact is more like plain slaughtering than actually true hunting. Getting a mission to "hunt" something/someone embedded in a story, researching the strength and weakness and the best strategy (in game), organizing a team with the right skill set and equipment, investigating where to find the enemy (in game), tracking down, spying out, chasing, fighting, finally defeating, that's what "hunting" should be like in EU2. And hunting is just an example...

    Last weekend I started to play Shadowrun Returns and wasn't able to stop before completion (and bought the add-on immediately after ;) ). It's actually a rather plain 2D point-and-click playthrough thingie with rather simple turn-based tactical combat. But story-telling is great from interface details over visuals to the main plot. It's simply a proper genre fiction, flawless and complete, nothing missing and nothing there that shouldn't be there, a homogeneous experience from tiny interface details to the grand finale. And damn, that where EU is messed up completely, simply a proper genre fiction, homogeneous, complete, immersive, that what I want in EU2.

    Summing it up trying to prioritize:
    1. Shorter yet comprehensive development cycle
    2. Homogeneous, immersive setting
    3. Homogeneous, complete features
    4. Deeper gameplay, less senseless grinding/gambling
    5. Less gambling, reasonable cost-to-play
    6. -n. Much much more
    But in fact I think that the above are vital for a sustaining 'success' of EU.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Yep totally agree Tass :)

    Fact is Entropia is so old hat and generally tiring in terms of dynamic & immersive gameplay.
    The RCE concept was never really developed to any degree of potential, nor will it be now in EU.

    I have started playing more with the potential of voxel based environments.
    They seem to be the direction the game industry is starting to head, player created and sold content.

    Even those games which are not of a voxel nature are starting to go towards player built based settings.
    Example > Northern Shadow > http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264849384
    Still under development and to be released as early access soon (Skyrim like game)



    Voxel based games I have been playing as of late:

    Planet Explorers >
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/237870/
    Pretty neat game, still under Alpha development with a long way to go, however playable with a lot of content available already.
    Happy snaps, base (colony) building, though you can build anything you can think of :)
    (My image wall for PE)
    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/...westfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall
    Some peoples stuff (Recent thread of ISOs, An awesome demo of what you can do) >
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/237870/discussions/0/522730700985043183
    Recent base (Colony) builds >
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/237870/discussions/0/522730701295081698

    Landmark Beta >
    I have been playing around with Landmark Beta too, having been in the Alpha prior.
    Long way to go there too, though it will include a ton of stuff, mobs, hunting, quests as it is part of Everquest Next so it will share the lore and gameplay features of EQ Next also :)

    Some happy snaps. (My image wall on Landmark so far, the last few days)
    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/...westfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall

    Beasts of Prey >
    There are others which are pretty damn good also, I will be exploring "Beasts of Prey" over the coming week.
    Link > http://store.steampowered.com/app/299860/



    So I agree, lots to do with EU2 to make it something worth looking at, RCE is not going to cut it :)
    What the bigger game dev companies (SOE aside) are not doing, the smaller ones are meeting market demand!
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  7. I should mention Star Forge too, though development is somewhat slow, lower budget and smaller team.
    Also a voxel environment. I am watching this project progress atm, though it needs a lot more work.

    Steam > http://store.steampowered.com/app/227680



    Earlier trailer / overview, earlier revision of game.

     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  8. RUST deserves a mention also, though off to a rough start in developing the alpha, the devs are starting to get their shit together and becoming more focused with a vision starting to form for the games future direction.

    Link > http://store.steampowered.com/app/252490/

    Yes, it is a survival game, you start out with nothing and have to develop everything :D
    A true challenge, well it will be once all the kinks are ironed out :)



    Anyway some of the above mentioned gameplay & user created content style mechanics would be what I believe EU2 will need to revive its long term survival in the game industry (Next 10 yrs)
     
  9. better animations are needed system wide... where'd sitting go?
    PVP should look like Street Fighter games or similar 2d combat games, not this bland crap that it looks like now... Sometimes I think the move to 3d game engines made some games much more visually boring since animators are 2d artists, not sculptors...

    There's a ton of emotes in game, and they are using motionbuilder to put animations together since some screenprint from devs showed it somewhere, so they have the tech there, just need better animation artists... and better combat controls that are more than simply 'use tool'

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    Nice writeup on Street Fighter's history at http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/02/16/ign-presents-the-history-of-street-fighter

    Prince of persia inspiration would also be cool... puzzle rooms and action packed animation following a story is much more visually stimulating than "go kill another 5000 mob of x type"
     
  10. I agree that a well thought out combat system adds a lot to a game.
    It is a whole dimension in its own right!

    One of the few games that got a 3D animated combat system right (And many other aspects of the game right too) is Kingdom of Amalur :)

    The combat system in KoA is amazing and requires a level of skill to use properly.
    A bit like a 2D street Fighter style system on steroids lol

    BTW, I recommend this game and its two DLCs very highly, one of the best single player games I have played and takes a few months (200+ hrs) of casual gameplay to complete.

    Enjoy!

     
  11. Here is one for you Mesh :)
    Sorry couldn't help myself lol. Fast forward to time 10:50+



    Anyway another game that does it right with Melee combat and Mindforce style abilities is Witcher 3 ;)

    Small combat demo in the swamp, no spoilers :)



    There is a lot more on witcher 3, but they would be spoilers to show.
     
  12. Ok so here is the Witcher 3 gameplay spoiler :)

     
  13. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    This is actually a scenario and multi-player coop style that I could imagine for EU2:




    Oh, Destiny went public beta a few hours ago and Dahlia will give away a beta key in ~20 minutes: http://www.twitch.tv/ludophiles ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Looks very cool as an FPS indeed. Thanks for sharing.
     
  15. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Master Of Entropia

    Destiny looks cool, but is far aways from EU.
     
  16. I think Tass was referring to it on a concept level in that you can design instances like ark have done with Arkas instances whereby you do small team missions like the one shown in the video (A bit like a robot beacon mission) but these can be more diverse and have specific stories that follow on ... multiple instances that unlock and get harder as you progress through each part of the story successfully.

    You can take it another step further in that one set of instances can be PvE content against story based mobs, eg.Robots or Mutants or even a combination of both working together to attack human colony research labs or miltary sites for specific reasons (progressive storyline goal)

    And then the other PvP where you pick a faction to support each with a goal also, your team contributes to a leaderboard score and the top members of that faction's leaderboard get awarded tokens after a certain number of days style campaign, maybe even a buff that lasts a week as part of that end reward.

    The above are just short samples, there are many other ideas that can be done. A number of the games I play have such systems and a bit of blending of those systems could be made into something quite neat that would add a huge dimension to Entropia tactical gameplay requiring thought and planning before you commence the mission instance PvE or PvP.

    Faction corporations based co-operation between teams making up the faction and of course naturally, the storyline to go with giving a level of emmersion and goal to achieve with associated rewards for both team scoring for that single instance and then overall for the faction leaderboard after a certain campaign period.

    Hope that gives a bit more depth as to what Tass may be talking about?
    This is what it inspires in me as ideas/concepts that could work in Entropia ... A future blend of Destiny come other game's systems style lol ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  17. How would one pick a faction ?

    Well to aid the developers (fx: passes marshmellows around to devs around a campfire ... no damn it, they are not your replacement brain matter) ...

    You could have the PvP setup something along the lines of 1.MarCorp vs. 2.Isis corporation factions.

    Storyline along the lines of:

    A. Marcorp is working on a new <insert technological device name here> device that will add power and range to the Kallous range of Carbines ...

    Then you go through the instances getting the components required to get the device together.

    Part of the storyline could also be that a renouned scientist (required for both factions) is needed to make some part of the overall device and to get him/her (Having been made aware that s/he is going to be kidnapped [rescues are boring] has locked themselves in a miltary installation out at <insert area name here>) ... both teams would need to overcome the other to get to the scientist that your going to kidnap first.

    You know add a little spice and meaning to the overall story to make it intersting, not just a collect all components and then someone magically puts it together at the end boring outcome, we want immersion and involvement ;)

    B. Isis is working on a new .... to add power and firing rate to Pistols (Notice 2 major stats mentioned in red)

    Storyline like above, but slightly different for the entertainment value of the participant in giving them a different dialogue to experience.

    Instance rewards as you progress get better and are based primarily around that corporation's weapon type. ie. Marcorp instance completion = Standard (L) carbine reward, better carbines (L) as you unlock higher instances and maybe a buff for rifle blp & laser as part of the instance reward that lasts 24hrs.

    Isis would be handgun rewards like above, similar deal with instance completion buff.

    The overall leaderboard campaign reward could be a modified version of a higher end version of whichever factions weapon type you were going for, ie. Mod Carbine (L) with low TT but decays very slowly, lasting a long time ... and ofc the Isis Modified Handgun (L) same deal, low TT lasts a long time;

    The campaign's top 10 leaderboard members reward for the winning faction (Highest overall points) would get these mod weapons x 10 ...

    Only one faction would win so only 10 weapons go out, either Marcorp's or Isis's :)
    And ofc the campaign buff that would last a week.

    Just some food for thought. fx: Yes devs, your supposed to eat those marshmellows.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  18. ....
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
  19. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    Yep, that. Increasingly challenging story guided diversified team PvE gameplay.

    While the new instance systems might have more features the very basic one that has driven the old beacon missions is unfortunately still significantly lacking: Success was only possible as a result of coordinated team play.

    And that would be factor to become increasingly challenging, individual off-game skills and playing as a team. In contrary to 'just' leveling up (=paying money) to be able to click away another bunch of pixel in the same old boring way.

    There's so much potential in real team play and instances and so little of that is exploited by the current EU.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Don't get me started on StarForge. Only game I ever bought where I wanted my money back. Wish I'd read the comments before buying it, still I guess that game taught me to be more careful in the future with steam purchases. The game was literally unplayable. It actually made me motion sick.

    Wistrel
     
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